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> I'm simply proposing that we see people in these countries as people. Of course. Nobody is saying we shouldn't. If you're debating this premise, you're debat

by cbd1984 12y ago

> I'm simply proposing that we see people in these countries as people. Of course. Nobody is saying we shouldn't. If you're debating this premise, you're debating a premise nobody else raised, one which only exists in your head. > Your response shows that very well, which basically parrots everything our media ever says about North Korea. I'm not parroting, and saying I am just convinces me you're not interested in a discussion, but in being right, and insulting people who disagree. My conclusions are based on evidence, mostly from people who went there as tourists, shepherded by the government itself, and still saw horrible things. That, plus the refugees and the stories they tell, paint a consistently terrible picture of what life is like in North Korea. It's possible they're all lying, all the photos are doctored, and North Korea has just as many lights as South Korea when night falls. However, that's so far from being the least hypothesis that claiming it without a lot of new evidence is absurd.

Mikeb85 12y ago
> I'm not parroting, and saying I am just convinces me you're not interested in a discussion, but in being right, and insulting people who disagree. Then why do you say nothing of individual North Koreans, and not even touch on any of the points I raised in the first post you replied to? I said "People need to spend more time meeting, talking to people and experiencing life, and less time in front of the TV digesting everything the media tells us to believe." and your reply was "No. The West is not just as bad as North Korea. The West has more freedom of speech, freedom of information, and general freedom to be human." I suggested a conversation, a meeting of peoples, which is exactly what the article is about. It's not about a North Korean PR stunt, it's not about an officially sanctioned marathon. Yes, all that happened, but it's about what happens when North Koreans are allowed to meet westerners. > My conclusions are based on evidence, mostly from people who went there as tourists, shepherded by the government itself, and still saw horrible things. That, plus the refugees and the stories they tell, paint a consistently terrible picture of what life is like in North Korea. Again, you're debating how terrible North Korea is. That's not the point. > It's possible they're all lying, all the photos are doctored, and North Korea has just as many lights as South Korea when night falls. Yes, North Korea is less developed, there's less lights (granted, nearly every place on the planet has less lights, especially per square mile, than South Korea). Again, that's not the point. All I'm interested in is seeing the PEOPLE that are on the other side. This article is interesting because of the interactions with people in an isolated, some would say repressive, state that is opening up ever so slightly to foreign interaction. That's the point.
- cbd1984 12y ago
  > Then why do you say nothing of individual North Koreans, and not even touch on any of the points I raised in the first post you replied to? You said nothing of individual Westerners, and didn't touch on any of my points.
  - noobinname 12y ago
    Forget it: his holier-than-thou attitude basically means that he really needs feel good about himself. Arguing with that kind of mentality just means increasing his insecurity, not understanding.

by cbd1984 12y ago

Mikeb85 12y ago

> I'm not parroting, and saying I am just convinces me you're not interested in a discussion, but in being right, and insulting people who disagree. Then why do you say nothing of individual North Koreans, and not even touch on any of the points I raised in the first post you replied to? I said "People need to spend more time meeting, talking to people and experiencing life, and less time in front of the TV digesting everything the media tells us to believe." and your reply was "No. The West is not just as bad as North Korea. The West has more freedom of speech, freedom of information, and general freedom to be human." I suggested a conversation, a meeting of peoples, which is exactly what the article is about. It's not about a North Korean PR stunt, it's not about an officially sanctioned marathon. Yes, all that happened, but it's about what happens when North Koreans are allowed to meet westerners. > My conclusions are based on evidence, mostly from people who went there as tourists, shepherded by the government itself, and still saw horrible things. That, plus the refugees and the stories they tell, paint a consistently terrible picture of what life is like in North Korea. Again, you're debating how terrible North Korea is. That's not the point. > It's possible they're all lying, all the photos are doctored, and North Korea has just as many lights as South Korea when night falls. Yes, North Korea is less developed, there's less lights (granted, nearly every place on the planet has less lights, especially per square mile, than South Korea). Again, that's not the point. All I'm interested in is seeing the PEOPLE that are on the other side. This article is interesting because of the interactions with people in an isolated, some would say repressive, state that is opening up ever so slightly to foreign interaction. That's the point.

cbd1984 12y ago
> Then why do you say nothing of individual North Koreans, and not even touch on any of the points I raised in the first post you replied to? You said nothing of individual Westerners, and didn't touch on any of my points.
- noobinname 12y ago
  Forget it: his holier-than-thou attitude basically means that he really needs feel good about himself. Arguing with that kind of mentality just means increasing his insecurity, not understanding.