4 ms·

It is funny how the whole argument of masculinity is based on the American experience. A good control study would be somewhere where male rites of passage still

It is funny how the whole argument of masculinity is based on the American experience. A good control study would be somewhere where male rites of passage still exist, but men also still go to war (most conservative Asian societies for example).

67726e 11y ago
Perhaps that is mostly because Junger's documentaries are all around American troops. I also highly recommend Restrepo, and the follow up, Korengal.
- rob_lh 11y ago
  Yeah, the whole article, subject matter, and journey he explores is American. It's investigative at its best in that it explores why people make these decisions, and their decisions are strongly rooted in the ever-changing American society. Tangentially, I might be alone in this, but I consider great journalism to be like great science - it's able to discern the fundamental mechanics of an issue, but they're also notoriously terrible at applying those mechanics in a constructive way. As a result, when a journalist shares their perspective, I put a lot of weight on their analysis and little weight on their solutions.
  - bootload 11y ago
    "Yeah, the whole article, subject matter, and journey he explores is American." and yet it's universal. By training Junger is a anthropologist and if you read "War" you'll see the stories and themes he explains can be applied equally from Roman to the modern warrior. [0] http://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/B0085RZFDC http://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/B0085RZFDC
    - rob_lh 11y ago
      I think there's something to being a soldier and obviously masculinity that is universal. I would argue the American military experience - especially the modern American military - is fundamentally different from those that preceded it though. We don't claim tribute, we're not an honor society (at least not universally), we are building an empire, and ostensibly the wars of the country are the will of its citizens. Why Americans fight and American terms of victory are something different than any historical counterparts.
- bootload 11y ago
  "I also highly recommend Restrepo, and the follow up, Korengal." and, "The Last Patrol" ~ https://youtu.be/KwOAVSprv64 https://youtu.be/KwOAVSprv64
  - 67726e 11y ago
    The only reason I did not add it to the list is that I have yet to see it, and in fact did not know it existed until today, but if it's half as good as the others than it is still better than most.
    - bootload 11y ago
      "if it's half as good as the others than it is still better than most." Coming home is the hardest bit, this is what O’Bryne, and Junger are showing. A book-end to the original posted (parent) article. What happens when you try to re-integrate into normal society, with the trauma and baggage associated with combat then coming from a place where you put the group first to a place where you put yourself first? "We" v's "Me". More reading: - http://time.com/3594997/battle-scarred-sebastian-jungers-last-patrol-premieres-on-hbo/ http://time.com/3594997/battle-scarred-sebastian-jungers-las... - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/arts/in-the-last-patrol-sebastian-junger-zeroes-in-on-manhood.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/arts/in-the-last-patrol-se...
- hcrisp 11y ago
  I know Junger more from his books -- The Perfect Storm, Fire, War. His style is gripping, with little details that bring the story to life, and the chapters often end with an emotional punch. He has said he is following the pattern of author John MacPhee, who could make any topic interesting. Junger also critiques his own work ruthlessly, cutting out anything that does not hold his attention when he is tired, fatigued, or tipsy. Only what is left is used, and it shines.

67726e 11y ago

Perhaps that is mostly because Junger's documentaries are all around American troops. I also highly recommend Restrepo, and the follow up, Korengal.

rob_lh 11y ago
Yeah, the whole article, subject matter, and journey he explores is American. It's investigative at its best in that it explores why people make these decisions, and their decisions are strongly rooted in the ever-changing American society. Tangentially, I might be alone in this, but I consider great journalism to be like great science - it's able to discern the fundamental mechanics of an issue, but they're also notoriously terrible at applying those mechanics in a constructive way. As a result, when a journalist shares their perspective, I put a lot of weight on their analysis and little weight on their solutions.
- bootload 11y ago
  "Yeah, the whole article, subject matter, and journey he explores is American." and yet it's universal. By training Junger is a anthropologist and if you read "War" you'll see the stories and themes he explains can be applied equally from Roman to the modern warrior. [0] http://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/B0085RZFDC http://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/B0085RZFDC
  - rob_lh 11y ago
    I think there's something to being a soldier and obviously masculinity that is universal. I would argue the American military experience - especially the modern American military - is fundamentally different from those that preceded it though. We don't claim tribute, we're not an honor society (at least not universally), we are building an empire, and ostensibly the wars of the country are the will of its citizens. Why Americans fight and American terms of victory are something different than any historical counterparts.
bootload 11y ago
"I also highly recommend Restrepo, and the follow up, Korengal." and, "The Last Patrol" ~ https://youtu.be/KwOAVSprv64 https://youtu.be/KwOAVSprv64
- 67726e 11y ago
  The only reason I did not add it to the list is that I have yet to see it, and in fact did not know it existed until today, but if it's half as good as the others than it is still better than most.
  - bootload 11y ago
    "if it's half as good as the others than it is still better than most." Coming home is the hardest bit, this is what O’Bryne, and Junger are showing. A book-end to the original posted (parent) article. What happens when you try to re-integrate into normal society, with the trauma and baggage associated with combat then coming from a place where you put the group first to a place where you put yourself first? "We" v's "Me". More reading: - http://time.com/3594997/battle-scarred-sebastian-jungers-last-patrol-premieres-on-hbo/ http://time.com/3594997/battle-scarred-sebastian-jungers-las... - http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/arts/in-the-last-patrol-sebastian-junger-zeroes-in-on-manhood.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/arts/in-the-last-patrol-se...
hcrisp 11y ago
I know Junger more from his books -- The Perfect Storm, Fire, War. His style is gripping, with little details that bring the story to life, and the chapters often end with an emotional punch. He has said he is following the pattern of author John MacPhee, who could make any topic interesting. Junger also critiques his own work ruthlessly, cutting out anything that does not hold his attention when he is tired, fatigued, or tipsy. Only what is left is used, and it shines.