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Past societies found ways to incorporate, normalize, redirect, celebrate that will - now we pathologize it. Any examples? Blood sport and dueling comes to mind

Past societies found ways to incorporate, normalize, redirect, celebrate that will - now we pathologize it. Any examples? Blood sport and dueling comes to mind, though I am skeptical of their desirability. Perhaps the latter might be reinstated as a voluntary contract for consenting adults, but it's treading a fine line.

coolsunglasses 12y ago
Consider the cultural norms of old European sword nobility. Soldiers, particularly those that saw combat, aren't treated at all in the same way today as they were 100, 500, 1000 years ago. Pre-axial religions were more to my point than axial-age, universalizing faiths like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam. For example, human and animal sacrifice. A different example not centered on violence: carnival. >though I am skeptical of their desirability. Perhaps the latter might be reinstated as a voluntary contract for consenting adults, but it's treading a fine line. That's fine, but you need to realize that this viewpoint is about an ideal societal arrangement and doesn't accord with the entire range of human desire.
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  I'd wager that there was also a higher per capita distribution of soldiers back then. That there was a consistent ethos as to their treatment is dubious. It's interesting you mention a century ago. Here is a prime example of the good treatment soldiers received back then, on top of the involuntary experimentation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Human sacrifice certainly might be an ideal arrangement. Though I'm not sure which meaning of ideal - one of optimal efficiency, or one of opposition to reality. If young men really are so bloodthirsty and violent and this should be celebrated, voluntary blood sport is probably the best bet. Ultimately, avoidance of gratuitous death is a good thing.
Symmetry 12y ago
Or if you go back further raiding, blood feuds, and that sort of thing. The formation of states with their monopolies on violence was a huge change in the human condition. We certainly gave up something fundamental to the human condition when we decided that personal vengeance was anathema. But still, I think it was a good trade.

coolsunglasses 12y ago

Consider the cultural norms of old European sword nobility. Soldiers, particularly those that saw combat, aren't treated at all in the same way today as they were 100, 500, 1000 years ago. Pre-axial religions were more to my point than axial-age, universalizing faiths like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam. For example, human and animal sacrifice. A different example not centered on violence: carnival. >though I am skeptical of their desirability. Perhaps the latter might be reinstated as a voluntary contract for consenting adults, but it's treading a fine line. That's fine, but you need to realize that this viewpoint is about an ideal societal arrangement and doesn't accord with the entire range of human desire.

vezzy-fnord 12y ago
I'd wager that there was also a higher per capita distribution of soldiers back then. That there was a consistent ethos as to their treatment is dubious. It's interesting you mention a century ago. Here is a prime example of the good treatment soldiers received back then, on top of the involuntary experimentation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Human sacrifice certainly might be an ideal arrangement. Though I'm not sure which meaning of ideal - one of optimal efficiency, or one of opposition to reality. If young men really are so bloodthirsty and violent and this should be celebrated, voluntary blood sport is probably the best bet. Ultimately, avoidance of gratuitous death is a good thing.

Symmetry 12y ago

Or if you go back further raiding, blood feuds, and that sort of thing. The formation of states with their monopolies on violence was a huge change in the human condition. We certainly gave up something fundamental to the human condition when we decided that personal vengeance was anathema. But still, I think it was a good trade.