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Having been in for 20 years now, I definitely agree with Junger, there is an innate element in young men trying to prove themselves. I think YCombinator appeals

Having been in for 20 years now, I definitely agree with Junger, there is an innate element in young men trying to prove themselves. I think YCombinator appeals to a similar desire. I was performing an autopsy yesterday when the med student, the photographer, and the assistant started talking about guns. Their gusto was impressive. I felt no need to partake, but I think that was attributable, at least in part, to the fact that I have far more experience with weapons than any of them. But I acquired those experiences by satisfying the same desire they, to some extent, haven't. How do you break that chicken-egg problem? Alternate rites of passage, I would think. We need more of those. Is there a way to facilitate young men helping on start-ups earlier in their careers? Maybe before college?

67726e 12y ago
Perhaps, but I really don't know if that would solve it either. I've done rather well thus far in my career, and continue to do so. Yet something feels missing, I don't know what, but I still have some recurring desire to enlist. That the whole software thing - and this is something I've been doing since a very young age - is not enough. That I should be doing something _more_.
- saiya-jin 12y ago
  Try rock climbing/mountaineering. Being in the wall few hundred meters above the ground, your mind doesn't care if there is securing rope tying you to last quickdraw or not. You will be scared. You will be bathing in adrenaline. You will have to muster all your courage to move forward, to climb higher, to reach the top. Again and again. You'll get all the excitement army guys get in deployment, without screwing you up and becoming permanent mental cripple. In fact, it will make you a better person in many many ways. Guaranteed.
bootload 12y ago
"there is an innate element in young men trying to prove themselves. I think YCombinator appeals to a similar desire." being young, male and bottom of the totem-pole, a place where you are valued, relied on, protect and protect others why wouldn't a kid see this as a great option. Junger makes the point a number of times that as a 17-26y/o you are 6 times more likely to be killed than F or other M in different age groups. You are physically safer in the services. "Alternate rites of passage, I would think. We need more of those." Second that. What ROPs will youngsters choose without some element of danger though, to prove themselves? I'm convinced the danger element/risk seeking and success is bound tightly with ROP. That was my youth, though I'd been well trained in calculated risk.
uxhacker 12y ago
Exactly. I went to a sad war to piss off my parents. One Grandfather had delivered letters. Another had been in the 10th Australian Light Horse Regiment of the Australian army and last great horse led assault of the First World War. I could not rebel by taking drugs. Both my parents went to wars. My parents had been famous journalists. My mother had broken the the story of the Heroin problem of the Australian army. My dad broke countless stories. All wars are nasty. I went to Sarajevo in the 1990's. This was a war of the break of communism (in a way) of Yugoslavia. This was a war that was accessible from a 3 hour flight form London. Upon arrival I phoned both of my parents courtesy of of a CNN satellite. But I was lucky. Somebody pointed a gun at the car I was driving and missed. Another day somebody pointed a gun at the tank I was hiding behind. They missed. The weird part of this story was that I was escaping the production of a violent computer game which I was meant to be helping with in the marketing. Where I went was very scary. In the computer game you never missed. In real life you just partied. All of this to piss my parents off. Am I mad. The weird bit, was that marijuana was cool in my parents eyes, but war was not. There was neither the understanding in why I went, or why the war had happened by anybody. I still feel cut off by this war. I lost the war. I started to believe that there should be no distance between the developed and developing world. But in the end no matter how strange the first world was that the developing world people will still fire guns at you. Having said that. I have more true friends in the developing world than the developed. What makes me feel sad is that us as humans are basically the same.
didibus 12y ago
Interestingly enough, crime is perpetrated mostly by young men also.
agumonkey 12y ago
I'm stunned to realize how important youth to adult transition, rite of passage are important.

67726e 12y ago

Perhaps, but I really don't know if that would solve it either. I've done rather well thus far in my career, and continue to do so. Yet something feels missing, I don't know what, but I still have some recurring desire to enlist. That the whole software thing - and this is something I've been doing since a very young age - is not enough. That I should be doing something _more_.

saiya-jin 12y ago
Try rock climbing/mountaineering. Being in the wall few hundred meters above the ground, your mind doesn't care if there is securing rope tying you to last quickdraw or not. You will be scared. You will be bathing in adrenaline. You will have to muster all your courage to move forward, to climb higher, to reach the top. Again and again. You'll get all the excitement army guys get in deployment, without screwing you up and becoming permanent mental cripple. In fact, it will make you a better person in many many ways. Guaranteed.

bootload 12y ago

"there is an innate element in young men trying to prove themselves. I think YCombinator appeals to a similar desire." being young, male and bottom of the totem-pole, a place where you are valued, relied on, protect and protect others why wouldn't a kid see this as a great option. Junger makes the point a number of times that as a 17-26y/o you are 6 times more likely to be killed than F or other M in different age groups. You are physically safer in the services. "Alternate rites of passage, I would think. We need more of those." Second that. What ROPs will youngsters choose without some element of danger though, to prove themselves? I'm convinced the danger element/risk seeking and success is bound tightly with ROP. That was my youth, though I'd been well trained in calculated risk.

uxhacker 12y ago

Exactly. I went to a sad war to piss off my parents. One Grandfather had delivered letters. Another had been in the 10th Australian Light Horse Regiment of the Australian army and last great horse led assault of the First World War. I could not rebel by taking drugs. Both my parents went to wars. My parents had been famous journalists. My mother had broken the the story of the Heroin problem of the Australian army. My dad broke countless stories. All wars are nasty. I went to Sarajevo in the 1990's. This was a war of the break of communism (in a way) of Yugoslavia. This was a war that was accessible from a 3 hour flight form London. Upon arrival I phoned both of my parents courtesy of of a CNN satellite. But I was lucky. Somebody pointed a gun at the car I was driving and missed. Another day somebody pointed a gun at the tank I was hiding behind. They missed. The weird part of this story was that I was escaping the production of a violent computer game which I was meant to be helping with in the marketing. Where I went was very scary. In the computer game you never missed. In real life you just partied. All of this to piss my parents off. Am I mad. The weird bit, was that marijuana was cool in my parents eyes, but war was not. There was neither the understanding in why I went, or why the war had happened by anybody. I still feel cut off by this war. I lost the war. I started to believe that there should be no distance between the developed and developing world. But in the end no matter how strange the first world was that the developing world people will still fire guns at you. Having said that. I have more true friends in the developing world than the developed. What makes me feel sad is that us as humans are basically the same.

didibus 12y ago

Interestingly enough, crime is perpetrated mostly by young men also.

agumonkey 12y ago

I'm stunned to realize how important youth to adult transition, rite of passage are important.