5 ms·
You can't really be serious.
by rcr 11y ago
You can't really be serious.
- Frondo 11y agoSure he is. I for one look forward to when we drop these asinine phrases like "manly-man" from casual conversation and start speaking with a better, broader, more meaningful, and richer kind of vocabulary.
- ra1n85 11y agoI for one look forward to when language can be used in a way that the original author sees fit and without having to pander to every gentle sensitivity or taste.
- Frondo 11y agoI don't know how the original author intended it, except that they seem to equate programming ability with masculinity. If that's what they meant, that's a pretty retrograde attitude. If that isn't what they meant, maybe it's time to update their vocabulary.
- evincarofautumn 11y agoWe should be considerate in how we listen as well as how we speak. It does no good to speak insensitively, nor to listen oversensitively. Communication is a two-way street. When I feel offended, I treat it as an opportunity to learn about a different viewpoint. Sometimes it makes me change my mind. It always gives me a better understanding of people.
- Frondo 11y agoThe thing is, you've got a woman right here telling you, "this is exclusionary and seems stupid on the face of it." We don't even have to guess at how it's taken by someone who doesn't fit into its built-in description; they're telling us in plain language. The different viewpoint, I guess, is that the original author has some outdated views on gender competence. I've seen lots of comments saying "oh but it adds flair to language," and that's a reeeeeally weak defense. There is much better language available; that stuff just sounds stupid at best and retrograde at worst.
- evincarofautumn 11y agoI agree that the comment was insensitive. I never said otherwise. I was pointing out that you missed a case: it is entirely possible “that is not what they meant and they do not need to update their vocabulary”.
- Frondo 11y agoOf course it's possible they didn't mean to equate programming skill with masculinity. That doesn't mean that they don't need to update their vocabulary--just like those those elderly people I know who still use words like "negros" to refer to black folks. Sometimes, the world changes, and it's up to us to keep up with the times. (It's funny, I bet you anything if the original author had said "this negro gentleman at my workplace...", no one would be defending his retrograde use of language.)
- evincarofautumn 11y agoYou’re not wrong, but we’re arguing about different things, and I’m not sure how I can make myself clear. I think they didn’t mean to equate programming skill and masculinity. I also think they should be more sensitive in how they speak. I also think it’s dishonest to ignore the fact that one can be true without the other. Furthermore, “manly man” is a wacky satirical caricature of “real man”, a problematic stereotype. “Negro” is just a problematic stereotype. I think we should find a better comparison, but one doesn’t come to mind.
- Frondo 11y agoActually, I think you've hit on something important: you're saying "manly man" is wacky and humorous, but "negro" is problematic. The only difference here and now is how it's no longer acceptable, at all, to play on race stereotypes, not like it was 50 years ago. Times change, and we can either keep up, or we can let ourselves becomes relics from an earlier era.
- 11y ago
- gone35 11y agoSure he is. Indeed. I'm glad at least one person got my point. (A minor nitpick, tho: for the record I happen to have been born with two X chromosomes. Good guess though; especially on HN threads like these.)
- Frondo 11y agoSorry! My bad, thanks for pointing out my assumption.