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Apple hasn't pushed this. If anything they are pushing quality paid titles and trying to given them lots of visibility. The market however has spoken.

by Steko 12y ago

seanalltogether 12y ago
> Apple hasn't pushed this. Of course they have, otherwise they would have long ago provided ways for paid apps to offer demos. There are lots of quality apps that would be rescued from the freemium category if Apple provided this as a distribution feature.
- Steko 12y ago
  You can have the demo experience you're describing by unlocking the substantial content as a single IAP. It's not Hollywoods fault we got Transformers 3, it's the 50 million people who bought tickets to Transformers 2.
  - ThomPete 12y ago
    And the reason we got Transformers 3 is because the 50 million people will buy whats being made available for them and pushed. Keep in mind that via Spotify's subscription model it's only something like 20% of the what users listen to thats chart music. The rest is outside the normal popular genres. So it's a chicken and an egg discussion.
    - Steko 12y ago
      No the 50 million people chose to consume Transformers 2 instead of John Carter, they don't just buy anything the studios shove in their face.
      - ThomPete 12y ago
        They buy what they are presented with and whats considered popular. How can they know up front whats good and bad? Thats how the movie industry still works that how the music industry used to work. I bet you Netflix show the same tendency of having more people see non-chart movies than if they had to pay for it.
        ThomPete 12y ago
        Nice to be downvoted without any argument as to why.
        emsy 12y ago
        As to why you're downvoted: HN has become rather eager to downvote. I'd even say toxic, because a few months ago I were downvoted and I knew I deserved it. Nowadays it's because I or someone else has an unpopular (but well reasoned) opinion. It's frustrating, not because I care for my Karma but because I'd like to have a discourse beyond agreeing on the popular opinion.
        ThomPete 12y ago
        Yeah. I thought down votes was for things that was factually wrong, trolling or ruining a discussion not for disagreement. Which is why I really wished down votes came with a requirement to quality why you are being down voted.
        s73v3r 12y ago
        He's probably been downvoted because his entire chain of comments boils down to "Hurr durr, people R sheep!"
        ThomPete 12y ago
        Funny. Here I though I was making an argument that when people where given the freedom to choose without it having financial implications they would in fact choose differently than when they have to pay for it and a "mistake" means more.
        s73v3r 12y ago
        People think a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're right.
        ThomPete 12y ago
  - seanalltogether 12y ago
    And now to complete the conversational loop and point out the problems of categorizing demos via IAP, I point you right back to my original comment.
    - Steko 12y ago
      How can you possibly reconcile the idea that demos would somehow beat out micro transactions if only they had their own category despite the fact that they fail living side by side with microtransactions?
      - mreiland 12y ago
        beat out? Discoverability is what the person is talking about, and it would indeed improve discoverability.
    - tjl 12y ago
      You do realize that a full unlock via IAP is basically the shareware approach? Just because something has IAP doesn't make it bad. One has to look at how the app uses IAP instead.
- yaeger 12y ago
  >otherwise they would have long ago provided ways for paid apps to offer demos. Like LITE version and Pro version of an app? Yeah, Why don't aht exist? Oh wait, it does. The devs just choose to make a free app and then have the pro version as in app purchase. But I guess the devs doing it that way is also Apples fault. Somehow everything is Apples fault according to you people.
  - endemic 12y ago
    No, the goal is to have only _one_ version of an app, with a time limit or limit to the # of times it can launch, etc., which Apple doesn't have any provision for. IAP for content is the next best thing, otherwise you have to maintain two separate apps, which is objectively terrible.
blub 12y ago
Apple is 100% guilty of this. Of course consumers will prefer free or very cheap software, but what most of them don't realise is that software is STILL very expensive to produce and maintain, so there will be a perverse incentive to extract value in other ways. The solution is very simple: ban buying gems, virtual dollars and all that crap.
venomsnake 12y ago
Apple have total control of the appstore, so it is their fault. If you could sideload games - then it would have been different because niche games could use other means of getting on devices (like humble bundle for android)

Apple hasn't pushed this. If anything they are pushing quality paid titles and trying to given them lots of visibility. The market however has spoken.

by Steko 12y ago

Apple hasn't pushed this. If anything they are pushing quality paid titles and trying to given them lots of visibility. The market however has spoken.

seanalltogether 12y ago

> Apple hasn't pushed this. Of course they have, otherwise they would have long ago provided ways for paid apps to offer demos. There are lots of quality apps that would be rescued from the freemium category if Apple provided this as a distribution feature.

Steko 12y ago
You can have the demo experience you're describing by unlocking the substantial content as a single IAP. It's not Hollywoods fault we got Transformers 3, it's the 50 million people who bought tickets to Transformers 2.
- ThomPete 12y ago
  And the reason we got Transformers 3 is because the 50 million people will buy whats being made available for them and pushed. Keep in mind that via Spotify's subscription model it's only something like 20% of the what users listen to thats chart music. The rest is outside the normal popular genres. So it's a chicken and an egg discussion.
  - Steko 12y ago
    No the 50 million people chose to consume Transformers 2 instead of John Carter, they don't just buy anything the studios shove in their face.
    - ThomPete 12y ago
      They buy what they are presented with and whats considered popular. How can they know up front whats good and bad? Thats how the movie industry still works that how the music industry used to work. I bet you Netflix show the same tendency of having more people see non-chart movies than if they had to pay for it.
      - ThomPete 12y ago
        Nice to be downvoted without any argument as to why.
      - emsy 12y ago
        As to why you're downvoted: HN has become rather eager to downvote. I'd even say toxic, because a few months ago I were downvoted and I knew I deserved it. Nowadays it's because I or someone else has an unpopular (but well reasoned) opinion. It's frustrating, not because I care for my Karma but because I'd like to have a discourse beyond agreeing on the popular opinion.
        ThomPete 12y ago
        Yeah. I thought down votes was for things that was factually wrong, trolling or ruining a discussion not for disagreement. Which is why I really wished down votes came with a requirement to quality why you are being down voted.
        s73v3r 12y ago
        He's probably been downvoted because his entire chain of comments boils down to "Hurr durr, people R sheep!"
        ThomPete 12y ago
        Funny. Here I though I was making an argument that when people where given the freedom to choose without it having financial implications they would in fact choose differently than when they have to pay for it and a "mistake" means more.
        s73v3r 12y ago
        People think a lot of things. Doesn't mean they're right.
        ThomPete 12y ago
- seanalltogether 12y ago
  And now to complete the conversational loop and point out the problems of categorizing demos via IAP, I point you right back to my original comment.
  - Steko 12y ago
    How can you possibly reconcile the idea that demos would somehow beat out micro transactions if only they had their own category despite the fact that they fail living side by side with microtransactions?
    - mreiland 12y ago
      beat out? Discoverability is what the person is talking about, and it would indeed improve discoverability.
  - tjl 12y ago
    You do realize that a full unlock via IAP is basically the shareware approach? Just because something has IAP doesn't make it bad. One has to look at how the app uses IAP instead.
yaeger 12y ago
>otherwise they would have long ago provided ways for paid apps to offer demos. Like LITE version and Pro version of an app? Yeah, Why don't aht exist? Oh wait, it does. The devs just choose to make a free app and then have the pro version as in app purchase. But I guess the devs doing it that way is also Apples fault. Somehow everything is Apples fault according to you people.
- endemic 12y ago
  No, the goal is to have only _one_ version of an app, with a time limit or limit to the # of times it can launch, etc., which Apple doesn't have any provision for. IAP for content is the next best thing, otherwise you have to maintain two separate apps, which is objectively terrible.

blub 12y ago

Apple is 100% guilty of this. Of course consumers will prefer free or very cheap software, but what most of them don't realise is that software is STILL very expensive to produce and maintain, so there will be a perverse incentive to extract value in other ways. The solution is very simple: ban buying gems, virtual dollars and all that crap.

venomsnake 12y ago

Apple have total control of the appstore, so it is their fault. If you could sideload games - then it would have been different because niche games could use other means of getting on devices (like humble bundle for android)