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How Neanderthal Predation Created Modern Humans

12 points by olliesaunders 17y ago

quant18 17y ago
The nicest thing I can say is that it may inspire some neat scifi stories. The author has some very odd theories about junk DNA ... Anyway for those who'd like more background on Mr. Vendramini: http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/origin-of-a-big-idea/2006/01/02/1136050390209.html?page=fullpage http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/origin-of-a-big-idea/... edit: though to be fair, he does have a good point about the anthropomorphising assumptions behind all those "artistic reconstructions" of what Neanderthals might have looked like.
- JacobAldridge 17y ago
  Well, it took a patent clerk to find the missing pieces to Newton's laws, and that took 150 years , so an "amateur biologist" evolving Darwin's theories? Why not. But I'll agree it's unlikely. After all, the first comment on this site "I couldn't put it down once...etc" is from Don Burke on Radio 2UE ... well-known to all Australians as the long-running host of our favourite gardening program.
- paulbaumgart 17y ago
  I don't know much about the subject, but I read through the first half of his paper ( http://themandus.org/abstract.html http://themandus.org/abstract.html ) and it seems reasonably well argued, fair in assessing the strength of the evidence supporting his hypotheses, and overall very scholarly. I don't think his ideas can be dismissed out of hand.
- kqr2 17y ago
  According to the authors, this is a more realistic depiction of what Neanderthals probably looked like: http://themandus.org/what_they_looked_like.html http://themandus.org/what_they_looked_like.html
DanielBMarkham 17y ago
Those damn neanderthals look scary as hell. I'm telling you, I felt an primeval gut reaction looking at those pictures. Maybe he's on to something.
- nfnaaron 17y ago
  The reason they're drawn scary is to support the theory of Neanderthal as cannibal. I'm not saying Neanderthal's didn't eat and rape humans, I'm just pointing out that the authors would be unlikely to include pictures of cuddly Neanderthals juxtaposed with paragraphs of rape. Sometimes I look scary. Sometimes I look friendly. My skull shape does not change in either state. I suppose when humans were fighting Neanderthals, their facial expressions were equally fierce and scary.
- jpeterson 17y ago
  They're definitely on to something with the eyes. I don't scare easily, but any vaguely hominid-shaped creature with big eyes gives me a visceral feeling of fright. The vertical slit has an affect, too. I think most people have this same reaction. Another example of this which I don't think they cite in the article would be modern alien abduction mythology. Most of the renderings and conceptual drawings of them portray beings with enormous black eyes (also slanted in the same fashion as the rendered neanderthals in parent article). Having said this, there are also many modern animals that, when shown snarling in the same manner as they portray these neanderthals, would be equally terrifying, I think.
  - DanielBMarkham 17y ago
    there are also many modern animals that, when shown snarling in the same manner as they portray these neanderthals, would be equally terrifying, I think. In person, yes. But in a picture? That's unusual for me. I thought the snarl was overdone. Just the big eyes and vaguely human (yet alien) form was enough I intuitively like the idea that another intelligent tool-wielding species put pressure on humans to evolve. I have no idea of the likelihood of the claim, but it would explain the sudden changes in our species in the last 100K years or so.
  - 17y ago
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
Semiapies 17y ago
The page on "Them" goes heavily into the importance of big, slitted eyes and how our wariness of such indicates the effect of millenia of Neanderthal predation. As opposed to indicating the effect of millions of years of predation by a variety of large felines, many of which hunted at night.
- Semiapies 17y ago
  Ah, apparently we've got some people with investment in this "theory" around. EDIT: And yes, you don't normally comment about moderation. But someone voting people down for being skeptical about a bit of half-baked, book-selling, amateur speculation is worth noting.
Semiapies 17y ago
A major problem with this idea is that Neanderthals were limited to Europe and the Middle East. That makes them a very unlikely candidate for a predator to reshape the evolutionary psyche of all humanity.

12 points by olliesaunders 17y ago

The nicest thing I can say is that it may inspire some neat scifi stories. The author has some very odd theories about junk DNA ... Anyway for those who'd like more background on Mr. Vendramini: http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/origin-of-a-big-idea/2006/01/02/1136050390209.html?page=fullpage http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/origin-of-a-big-idea/... edit: though to be fair, he does have a good point about the anthropomorphising assumptions behind all those "artistic reconstructions" of what Neanderthals might have looked like.

JacobAldridge 17y ago
Well, it took a patent clerk to find the missing pieces to Newton's laws, and that took 150 years , so an "amateur biologist" evolving Darwin's theories? Why not. But I'll agree it's unlikely. After all, the first comment on this site "I couldn't put it down once...etc" is from Don Burke on Radio 2UE ... well-known to all Australians as the long-running host of our favourite gardening program.
paulbaumgart 17y ago
I don't know much about the subject, but I read through the first half of his paper ( http://themandus.org/abstract.html http://themandus.org/abstract.html ) and it seems reasonably well argued, fair in assessing the strength of the evidence supporting his hypotheses, and overall very scholarly. I don't think his ideas can be dismissed out of hand.
kqr2 17y ago
According to the authors, this is a more realistic depiction of what Neanderthals probably looked like: http://themandus.org/what_they_looked_like.html http://themandus.org/what_they_looked_like.html

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

Those damn neanderthals look scary as hell. I'm telling you, I felt an primeval gut reaction looking at those pictures. Maybe he's on to something.

nfnaaron 17y ago
The reason they're drawn scary is to support the theory of Neanderthal as cannibal. I'm not saying Neanderthal's didn't eat and rape humans, I'm just pointing out that the authors would be unlikely to include pictures of cuddly Neanderthals juxtaposed with paragraphs of rape. Sometimes I look scary. Sometimes I look friendly. My skull shape does not change in either state. I suppose when humans were fighting Neanderthals, their facial expressions were equally fierce and scary.
jpeterson 17y ago
They're definitely on to something with the eyes. I don't scare easily, but any vaguely hominid-shaped creature with big eyes gives me a visceral feeling of fright. The vertical slit has an affect, too. I think most people have this same reaction. Another example of this which I don't think they cite in the article would be modern alien abduction mythology. Most of the renderings and conceptual drawings of them portray beings with enormous black eyes (also slanted in the same fashion as the rendered neanderthals in parent article). Having said this, there are also many modern animals that, when shown snarling in the same manner as they portray these neanderthals, would be equally terrifying, I think.
- DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  there are also many modern animals that, when shown snarling in the same manner as they portray these neanderthals, would be equally terrifying, I think. In person, yes. But in a picture? That's unusual for me. I thought the snarl was overdone. Just the big eyes and vaguely human (yet alien) form was enough I intuitively like the idea that another intelligent tool-wielding species put pressure on humans to evolve. I have no idea of the likelihood of the claim, but it would explain the sudden changes in our species in the last 100K years or so.
- 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

Semiapies 17y ago

The page on "Them" goes heavily into the importance of big, slitted eyes and how our wariness of such indicates the effect of millenia of Neanderthal predation. As opposed to indicating the effect of millions of years of predation by a variety of large felines, many of which hunted at night.

Semiapies 17y ago
Ah, apparently we've got some people with investment in this "theory" around. EDIT: And yes, you don't normally comment about moderation. But someone voting people down for being skeptical about a bit of half-baked, book-selling, amateur speculation is worth noting.

Semiapies 17y ago

A major problem with this idea is that Neanderthals were limited to Europe and the Middle East. That makes them a very unlikely candidate for a predator to reshape the evolutionary psyche of all humanity.