4 ms·

These action sequences being a jumbled up mess is a feature, I think. It allows the action on-screen to be visually sloppy and imprecise (thus easier to make),

by moskie 12y ago

These action sequences being a jumbled up mess is a feature, I think. It allows the action on-screen to be visually sloppy and imprecise (thus easier to make), and the audience makes up for it (subconsciously) with their imagination filling in the imperfections with something even better than what they could put on film. At least, that's what I tell myself. Perhaps we're both just getting old.

snarkyturtle 12y ago
That's also part of the reason why films are still shot at 24fps even with advanced cameras. You have fast-paced action scenes at 60fps and it doesn't feel as good as 24fps because you have more information. You take away information and add action blur and it feels more "film-like" and more frantic.
MAGZine 12y ago
You're exactly right. Not only is the ASL (average shot length) decreasing over time, but flurries of quick shots are great for hiding action that doesn't actually happen. It's definitely can be used as a crutch. Not always, it can accelerate the feeling of action, but often feels lazy, and a disservice to the viewer. e.g. Citizen Kane had an ASL of 12 seconds. Transformers: Dark side of the moon? 3.4seconds! http://www.cinemetrics.lv/database.php http://www.cinemetrics.lv/database.php Average ASL in 2006 was actually 2.9s.
- Jtsummers 12y ago
  Comparing to Citizen Kane seems unfair as it's not an action movie. So here are some other action movies. (NB: There are multiple entries for some of these but I'm not listing them all). Die Hard 4.5 Die Hard 2 3.1 Die Hard 3 1.8 Armageddon 2.2 -- at least he's ben consistently on the quick side Total Recall 3.7 -- original, 1990 Robocop 3.7 -- original Haywire 6 And I keep trying to search for movies they don't have in the database. So certainly for action movies (1980+), at least for some popular ones, the ASL isn't out of the ordinary. But then I searched for Alfred Hitchcock and got some interesting results. This database has many duplicate entries and some wildly different values. The Skin Game had 3 entries at about the same time (17.1, 17.3, 17.4). However, Rear Window has an entry at 3.7 and another at 8.8, and several at 10.5. I suppose I need to read about their methodology to understand why there's so much variance.
  - etcet 12y ago
    It's crowd sourced. They have software that returns timestamps when you click a button and you use it when watching a movie. It's definitely error prone and the data should be treated as if you got it from Mechanical Turk. There's so much data in movies that is really hard to get automatically. We should really be digitizing and cataloging old films if we're able. It's hard to find films in the public domain but this is what we should be doing with them: 4k scanning and digitizing. Perform a rough automatic restoration on all frames and audio then put it all online, every frame in 4k, and accept pull requests. During this process all shots and scenes should be accounted for. They are timed with actors and locations marked. Subtitles should have crucial metadata such as the actor speaking the lines. Music and musicians should be identified.
- ctdonath 12y ago
  Dark City has an ASL of 1.8 seconds. And it works.
finnh 12y ago
Yup. I find fight scenes with a bunch of cuts to be boring - and a bit disrespectful, even, of me as a viewer. Watching a fight with only one or two takes, however, is fantastic. If I recall, the Soderbergh movie "Haywire" was good about this.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Here's a nice blog post on the fights in JOHN WICK, which are quite fluid. From the viewpoint of a prose writer, but a good take on the visual techniques at work. http://www.maxgladstone.com/2015/04/fighting-words/ http://www.maxgladstone.com/2015/04/fighting-words/

by moskie 12y ago

snarkyturtle 12y ago

That's also part of the reason why films are still shot at 24fps even with advanced cameras. You have fast-paced action scenes at 60fps and it doesn't feel as good as 24fps because you have more information. You take away information and add action blur and it feels more "film-like" and more frantic.

MAGZine 12y ago

You're exactly right. Not only is the ASL (average shot length) decreasing over time, but flurries of quick shots are great for hiding action that doesn't actually happen. It's definitely can be used as a crutch. Not always, it can accelerate the feeling of action, but often feels lazy, and a disservice to the viewer. e.g. Citizen Kane had an ASL of 12 seconds. Transformers: Dark side of the moon? 3.4seconds! http://www.cinemetrics.lv/database.php http://www.cinemetrics.lv/database.php Average ASL in 2006 was actually 2.9s.

Jtsummers 12y ago
Comparing to Citizen Kane seems unfair as it's not an action movie. So here are some other action movies. (NB: There are multiple entries for some of these but I'm not listing them all). Die Hard 4.5 Die Hard 2 3.1 Die Hard 3 1.8 Armageddon 2.2 -- at least he's ben consistently on the quick side Total Recall 3.7 -- original, 1990 Robocop 3.7 -- original Haywire 6 And I keep trying to search for movies they don't have in the database. So certainly for action movies (1980+), at least for some popular ones, the ASL isn't out of the ordinary. But then I searched for Alfred Hitchcock and got some interesting results. This database has many duplicate entries and some wildly different values. The Skin Game had 3 entries at about the same time (17.1, 17.3, 17.4). However, Rear Window has an entry at 3.7 and another at 8.8, and several at 10.5. I suppose I need to read about their methodology to understand why there's so much variance.
- etcet 12y ago
  It's crowd sourced. They have software that returns timestamps when you click a button and you use it when watching a movie. It's definitely error prone and the data should be treated as if you got it from Mechanical Turk. There's so much data in movies that is really hard to get automatically. We should really be digitizing and cataloging old films if we're able. It's hard to find films in the public domain but this is what we should be doing with them: 4k scanning and digitizing. Perform a rough automatic restoration on all frames and audio then put it all online, every frame in 4k, and accept pull requests. During this process all shots and scenes should be accounted for. They are timed with actors and locations marked. Subtitles should have crucial metadata such as the actor speaking the lines. Music and musicians should be identified.
ctdonath 12y ago
Dark City has an ASL of 1.8 seconds. And it works.

finnh 12y ago

Yup. I find fight scenes with a bunch of cuts to be boring - and a bit disrespectful, even, of me as a viewer. Watching a fight with only one or two takes, however, is fantastic. If I recall, the Soderbergh movie "Haywire" was good about this.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
Here's a nice blog post on the fights in JOHN WICK, which are quite fluid. From the viewpoint of a prose writer, but a good take on the visual techniques at work. http://www.maxgladstone.com/2015/04/fighting-words/ http://www.maxgladstone.com/2015/04/fighting-words/