7 ms·

Kickstarter: They’re Like Wreck-It-Ralph in a China Shop

93 points by Mithaldu 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
njloof 12y ago
I'd like to buy a context, please.
- pja 12y ago
  This, I think: http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alternate-realities/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alter... Short version: Creator partners with company to Kickstart a bunch of stuff. Company owner appears to have done a runner with the Kickstarter cash, leaving the creator to deal with the backlash from aggrieved fans when they don’t even have access to the Kickstarter account in question. Kickstarter are not helping the situation, but then they’re in an awkward position.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    > they’re in an awkward position. Why claim the game is going to be made if it's clearly not the case? It sounds like some of the awkwardness is self-inflicted...
    - madaxe_again 12y ago
      It sounds like they have a fistful of commission and don't want to let go.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      It seems pretty clear that the process that kicked off this mail to backers of this project is independent of any other part of Kickstarter that knows any of the details about how this particular project scammed its users. It looks like this is a process that kicks off semi-autonomously as soon as an IP dispute happens; there is probably a button someone pushes somewhere to make it happen. So the short answer is: that's canned text that does not perfectly apply to a situation where there's an IP dispute over a project that is also a scam.
      - mercurial 12y ago
        That is a possible explanation. I guess it shows how unwise it is to use automated emails in cases like this.
      - MadcapJake 12y ago
        This. Either KS needs a few more canned email responses or maybe a team that can actually write custom emails. I would think that with all the money, law, and slobbering fans involved you'd might want to have at least someone who can handle these kinds of situations with care...but I guess the lazy approach is working for them... Another thought: maybe KS really doesn't want to say that the project isn't going to happen as that would hurt their brand. If a KS canned email admitted some kind of failing, that could hurt their reputation in the eyes of backers everywhere. So they just have to stick with the ignorant canned email and just pass the blame on down to the project creators.
- cstuder 12y ago
  From: http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-the-undead-kickstarter-campaign-third-update/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-the-undead-kickstarter-c... >> In the summer of 2013, Tarol Hunt and Evertide Games joined together and launched a Kickstarter for the creation of a tabletop game based of off the webcomic, Goblins. Goblins: Alternate Realities (G:AR) raised over $182,000, but the game was never made. Instead, the owner of Evertide Games disappeared with the money. <<
dragontamer 12y ago
This sounds like an important issue. What is going on here?
yarper 12y ago
Can't read because 25% of the text is in black over a black background
- eatonphil 12y ago
  Here's the full text: Kickstarter: They’re like Wreck-it-Ralph In A China Shop. And Each Piece Of China Is A Backer. April 15th, 2015 So I just got this email from Kickstarter… This is a message from Kickstarter’s Integrity team. We’re writing to inform you that a project you backed, Goblins: Alternate Realities, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute. This is so odd, since they’ve told me repeatedly, that they absolutely cannot send messages out to all the backers. And yet… here’s a message sent to all the backers. Weird. I’m thinking wizards from the future? Maybe it was Ultron and his super high tech? The law requires that we remove the project from public view until the dispute is resolved (please see our Copyright Policy and Trademark Policy for more info). Because the project already ended successfully, your pledge hasn’t been affected. The creator should still be able to move forward with the project (and send any unfulfilled rewards). Really?! Really. I mean… seriously? Kickstarter is vastly informed with the current situation. They KNOW that Richard (the creator) stole the money and ran. They KNOW that he is not making G:AR under any circumstances. I have asked them over and over, if they’d send a blanket email to all my backers, telling them that G:AR is not being made. And here they are emailing all the backers to tell them that it WILL be made and assuring the backers that they WILL get their rewards! You have got to be kidding me. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Thanks again, Kickstarter! Thanks for screwing me over just a little bit more! Now I’ve got a tsunami of emails from people thinking that they’re going to be getting their rewards. I mean, why wouldn’t they think that? Kickstarter just personally told them it would happen. Now it’s my word against Kickstarter’s. I didn’t think it possible, but Kickstarter has made this situation so, so much worse. Kickstarter… you suck. You’re horrible and/or incompetent people that HAVE to be doing this on purpose. I can’t think of any other reason for this level of ineptitude. If you have any questions, though, you can still message the creator from the project page. And finally, we have the climax of this stupidity. Sure. message the creator. Nevermind that Richard stopped responding to all of those messages a loooong time ago. No, no. Please. Please feel free to contact the creator via the link kindly provided by Kickstarter. After all, Kickstarter did just assure you that “you can STILL message the creator“. Thanks for your patience and cooperation, Kickstarter Sit back down, Kickstarter. You’re embarrassing me, yourself and the 3000 backers involved. -Tarol
aikah 12y ago
First rule of Kickstarter: when things go south, Kickstarter isn't responsible for anything and you're on your own, backer or creator. I think they made it pretty clear.
- jonlucc 12y ago
  I agree, but that leads me as a backer to try to validate the ability of creators to finish. The best way for me to evaluate that short of personally knowing the creator is to see if they have previous campaigns that finished well. This continues to turn Kickstarter into a pre-order store where all of the risk lies on the purchaser.
  - Goronmon 12y ago
    I agree, but that leads me as a backer to try to validate the ability of creators to finish. Hasn't this been pretty clear from day one? Kickstarter may not be perfect, but I feel like the one thing they've been pretty consistent on is that they don't have a lot of control over how the creators fulfill their obligations.
    - jonlucc 12y ago
      Yes, but it seems to me like the campaigns you can trust are from those creators which have started using Kickstarter as a pre-sell store. That's their choice as a platform, but I preferred the days of funding small businesses that chose to earn capital from their users instead of a bank. I think they've vastly changed the utility of Kickstarter to creators, resulting in companies built only around sales on Kickstarter, rather than as a means to start something outside.
  - Nursie 12y ago
    This is why I prefer the micro-equity model that's popped up on a few European sites, because it acknowledges you're taking a risk, and rewards if it plays out well.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
kieranajp 12y ago
Text-only version https://www.instapaper.com/text?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goblinscomic.org%2Fkickstarter-theyre-like-wreck-it-ralph-in-a-china-shop-and-each-piece-of-china-is-a-backer%2F https://www.instapaper.com/text?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goblinsco...
wiradikusuma 12y ago
- So A partnered with B and made a kickstarter campaign. From everybody's point of view, A and B is one entity. - The campaign was successful (funded), but B ran away. - Kickstarter is aware of that, but told all backers to remain calm, saying that the project will still continue. - A is upset, because not only he's screwed by B, now he needs to fulfil his promise, but without seeing a penny. I don't understand, can't A get his shit together with B, or whatever, and still deliver, since well, you know, it's funded? From the perspective of everyone else, A/B is one entity, no?
- Roritharr 12y ago
  Oftentimes its not so easy to "get your shit together". When you've already misjudged the character of your partner to such a degree, you most likely didn't judge other aspects of the project as competently aswell, especially those in the domain of your partner. Without knowing any internals, funding sum, scope, what actually happened to the money, we can do nothing but speculate which is pointless.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Presumably "everyone" includes Kickstarter --- that is, as far as Kickstarter is concerned, A & B are the same entity as well. I'm not sure I see how it could work otherwise (but I don't know Kickstarter that well).
- Red_Tarsius 12y ago
  On top of that, B was a dear friend of A. Lesson: never trust anyone in business. Only the paranoid survive. Judging from her previous posts, I guess B had some sort of mental breakdown. Maybe too much stress, it often happens with hard deadlines. $182,000 don't make for a life changing hustle.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    > $182,000 don't make for a life changing hustle. That's half a millennium's income for the billion people on the planet who live on a dollar a day. There are plenty of folks for whom a few thousand dollars is life-changing.
DannoHung 12y ago
Uhh, isn't this when you file a lawsuit against your partner for failure to fulfill terms of the contract you agreed upon?
- saalweachter 12y ago
  Is absconding with company funds a civil or criminal ... crime? If I'm an employee at a game company and take $182,000 out of the company till and walk away, I'm pretty sure it's a criminal matter. If the owner of the game company walks away with all the money, is that merely a civil case, failure to honor contracts?
  - bjt 12y ago
    There's civil liability in either case. Whether there's criminal liability would be a question of US state law (as opposed to federal), so it could vary depending on the state. As one example, New York law seems to say (based on quick Googling) that there would be criminal liability if it could be shown that the defendant intended to run away with the money instead of using it to fulfill the contract. http://www.nycrimblog.com/nycrim/2009/11/when-does-a-breach-of-contract-result-in-criminal-liability.html http://www.nycrimblog.com/nycrim/2009/11/when-does-a-breach-...
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Whether there's criminal liability would be a question of US state law (as opposed to federal), so it could vary depending on the state. Federal law could apply, as well, depending on the circumstances or means. I'm pretty sure I've seen cases where schemes where running away with the money was intended in -- that is, before particular parties were convinced to spend money that went to the company -- prosecuted under federal mail and/or wire fraud statutes
markcmyers 12y ago
I feel her pain, but in my book it's inappropriate for her to be painting herself as a victim. A business in which she was a principal cheated 3,000 people out of $182,000. Now she's wailing about being inconvenienced. She should sit down and write a personal apology to each of the backers who've been more than inconvenienced.
- axus 12y ago
  Tarol did post a public apology a while back, this situation has been going on for a while. Today's rant is about Kickstarter not sending the apology or information to the backer list before, but now is able to do so with false information. http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alternate-realities/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alter...
protomyth 12y ago
Why is the link showing this on a Barracuda: The link you are accessing has been blocked by the Barracuda Web Filter because it contains content belonging to the category of: Violence & Terrorism If you believe this is an error or need to access this link please contact your administrator. URL: http://www.goblinscomic.org
- ColinDabritz 12y ago
  The comic itself does contain violence, so from that perspective I don't think it's an unreasonable choice for a filter to label it 'Violence', and that's my guess as to why it was filtered. Having the category of 'Violence' conflated with 'Terrorism' is ridiculous.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
antoniuschan99 12y ago
It seems as though this is the consequence of the new business models where the business (in this case Kickstarter), don't actually own anything. And for that reason, aren't legally obligated to actually do much. This could be said for other sites like Uber, and AirBnb with similar business models. The good thing, in AirBnb's case, is there is an insurance policy for issues that happen. Kickstarter definitely needs to do something (maybe a rating system) to stop these cases from happening as often as they do. As for the backers, maybe just spend less on the amount you're funding.
- makeitsuckless 12y ago
  The thing is, it's simply a lie. The idea that the law doesn't cover these "innovative" and "disruptive" business models is an illusion. Uber, AirBnB, Kickstarter etcetera, they're not doing anything fundamentally new, they've just added a new coat of paint to a very old business model. A business model that is in most cases already clearly regulated (especially outside the US), and, especially in the case of Uber, these companies are deliberately flouting these laws and regulations. There is however a major difference in how these companies handle the problem. AirBnB constructively works with regulators to adapt both rules and its business practices. Uber treats the law with less respect than the Russian mob and thinks it can bully governments into surrendering consumer and labor protections. Kickstarter is mostly known for sticking its head in the sand an hoping things will blow over. But in all cases, the law tends to cover exploiting, profiting from, soliciting and provoking illegal activity as well as the scams themselves. These companies do not operate in a legal vacuum, other than the Silicon Vally echo chamber.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Doesn't the goblins comic guy still owe content from the fundraiser that bought him a house a few years ago, or has that been resolved?
Kiro 12y ago
Who is the guy posting this and what's his involvement? Where can I get some background? Also, why did this just jump from like #2 to second page in just one page reload? Did someone flag it or how does it work? I see it happening a lot on HN; I remember some article on the front page and when I go back a couple of minutes later to read it it's gone.
bhouston 12y ago
This is the perfect situation to sue. You will win. Business is messy and sometimes when people act like dicks and take money but don't deliver, you need to sue. If you don't sue, you will get taken advantage of. Asking for Kickstarter to fix a situation is fine, but really you need to sue your former business partner and ask for them to cover court fees and even go for damages to your reputation.
- nimblegorilla 12y ago
  Just because you can win in court doesn't mean you can collect damages later. If the other guy set up a business then he is pretty safe. Kickstarter needs to fix situations like these.
- dragontamer 12y ago
  > This is the perfect situation to sue. You will win. Sue for what? Kickstarter doesn't have any obligations, and there doesn't seem to be any formal agreements between the author of this post and the gamemaker... and finally the author of the post is Canadian while the game-maker is American. Feel like figuring out the details of international trademark / copyright law to build up a case?
A_COMPUTER 12y ago
Here's a little more info about the company, the goblins comic guy contracted with. They also did another kickstarter for a card game for Kingdom of Loathing online game at around the same time. https://www.reddit.com/r/kol/comments/2b9xs5/update_for_international_backers_on_the_mr_card/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kol/comments/2b9xs5/update_for_inte... which was late and underdelivered and apparently the company tanked. Also, apparently the comic creator doesn't even have the list of kickstarter backers, only the game company did. He can't even directly email people. I'm not sure how he's verifying who kickstarted the game.
aikah 12y ago
Here is the KS page : http://web.archive.org/web/20140913060147/https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336486938/goblins-alternate-realities http://web.archive.org/web/20140913060147/https://www.kickst... Evertide Games is the creator of the project,not the OP's business.

93 points by Mithaldu 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

njloof 12y ago

I'd like to buy a context, please.

pja 12y ago
This, I think: http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alternate-realities/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alter... Short version: Creator partners with company to Kickstart a bunch of stuff. Company owner appears to have done a runner with the Kickstarter cash, leaving the creator to deal with the backlash from aggrieved fans when they don’t even have access to the Kickstarter account in question. Kickstarter are not helping the situation, but then they’re in an awkward position.
- mercurial 12y ago
  > they’re in an awkward position. Why claim the game is going to be made if it's clearly not the case? It sounds like some of the awkwardness is self-inflicted...
  - madaxe_again 12y ago
    It sounds like they have a fistful of commission and don't want to let go.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    It seems pretty clear that the process that kicked off this mail to backers of this project is independent of any other part of Kickstarter that knows any of the details about how this particular project scammed its users. It looks like this is a process that kicks off semi-autonomously as soon as an IP dispute happens; there is probably a button someone pushes somewhere to make it happen. So the short answer is: that's canned text that does not perfectly apply to a situation where there's an IP dispute over a project that is also a scam.
    - mercurial 12y ago
      That is a possible explanation. I guess it shows how unwise it is to use automated emails in cases like this.
    - MadcapJake 12y ago
      This. Either KS needs a few more canned email responses or maybe a team that can actually write custom emails. I would think that with all the money, law, and slobbering fans involved you'd might want to have at least someone who can handle these kinds of situations with care...but I guess the lazy approach is working for them... Another thought: maybe KS really doesn't want to say that the project isn't going to happen as that would hurt their brand. If a KS canned email admitted some kind of failing, that could hurt their reputation in the eyes of backers everywhere. So they just have to stick with the ignorant canned email and just pass the blame on down to the project creators.
cstuder 12y ago
From: http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-the-undead-kickstarter-campaign-third-update/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-the-undead-kickstarter-c... >> In the summer of 2013, Tarol Hunt and Evertide Games joined together and launched a Kickstarter for the creation of a tabletop game based of off the webcomic, Goblins. Goblins: Alternate Realities (G:AR) raised over $182,000, but the game was never made. Instead, the owner of Evertide Games disappeared with the money. <<

dragontamer 12y ago

This sounds like an important issue. What is going on here?

yarper 12y ago

Can't read because 25% of the text is in black over a black background

eatonphil 12y ago
Here's the full text: Kickstarter: They’re like Wreck-it-Ralph In A China Shop. And Each Piece Of China Is A Backer. April 15th, 2015 So I just got this email from Kickstarter… This is a message from Kickstarter’s Integrity team. We’re writing to inform you that a project you backed, Goblins: Alternate Realities, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute. This is so odd, since they’ve told me repeatedly, that they absolutely cannot send messages out to all the backers. And yet… here’s a message sent to all the backers. Weird. I’m thinking wizards from the future? Maybe it was Ultron and his super high tech? The law requires that we remove the project from public view until the dispute is resolved (please see our Copyright Policy and Trademark Policy for more info). Because the project already ended successfully, your pledge hasn’t been affected. The creator should still be able to move forward with the project (and send any unfulfilled rewards). Really?! Really. I mean… seriously? Kickstarter is vastly informed with the current situation. They KNOW that Richard (the creator) stole the money and ran. They KNOW that he is not making G:AR under any circumstances. I have asked them over and over, if they’d send a blanket email to all my backers, telling them that G:AR is not being made. And here they are emailing all the backers to tell them that it WILL be made and assuring the backers that they WILL get their rewards! You have got to be kidding me. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Thanks again, Kickstarter! Thanks for screwing me over just a little bit more! Now I’ve got a tsunami of emails from people thinking that they’re going to be getting their rewards. I mean, why wouldn’t they think that? Kickstarter just personally told them it would happen. Now it’s my word against Kickstarter’s. I didn’t think it possible, but Kickstarter has made this situation so, so much worse. Kickstarter… you suck. You’re horrible and/or incompetent people that HAVE to be doing this on purpose. I can’t think of any other reason for this level of ineptitude. If you have any questions, though, you can still message the creator from the project page. And finally, we have the climax of this stupidity. Sure. message the creator. Nevermind that Richard stopped responding to all of those messages a loooong time ago. No, no. Please. Please feel free to contact the creator via the link kindly provided by Kickstarter. After all, Kickstarter did just assure you that “you can STILL message the creator“. Thanks for your patience and cooperation, Kickstarter Sit back down, Kickstarter. You’re embarrassing me, yourself and the 3000 backers involved. -Tarol

aikah 12y ago

First rule of Kickstarter: when things go south, Kickstarter isn't responsible for anything and you're on your own, backer or creator. I think they made it pretty clear.

jonlucc 12y ago
I agree, but that leads me as a backer to try to validate the ability of creators to finish. The best way for me to evaluate that short of personally knowing the creator is to see if they have previous campaigns that finished well. This continues to turn Kickstarter into a pre-order store where all of the risk lies on the purchaser.
- Goronmon 12y ago
  I agree, but that leads me as a backer to try to validate the ability of creators to finish. Hasn't this been pretty clear from day one? Kickstarter may not be perfect, but I feel like the one thing they've been pretty consistent on is that they don't have a lot of control over how the creators fulfill their obligations.
  - jonlucc 12y ago
    Yes, but it seems to me like the campaigns you can trust are from those creators which have started using Kickstarter as a pre-sell store. That's their choice as a platform, but I preferred the days of funding small businesses that chose to earn capital from their users instead of a bank. I think they've vastly changed the utility of Kickstarter to creators, resulting in companies built only around sales on Kickstarter, rather than as a means to start something outside.
- Nursie 12y ago
  This is why I prefer the micro-equity model that's popped up on a few European sites, because it acknowledges you're taking a risk, and rewards if it plays out well.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

kieranajp 12y ago

Text-only version https://www.instapaper.com/text?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goblinscomic.org%2Fkickstarter-theyre-like-wreck-it-ralph-in-a-china-shop-and-each-piece-of-china-is-a-backer%2F https://www.instapaper.com/text?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goblinsco...

wiradikusuma 12y ago

- So A partnered with B and made a kickstarter campaign. From everybody's point of view, A and B is one entity. - The campaign was successful (funded), but B ran away. - Kickstarter is aware of that, but told all backers to remain calm, saying that the project will still continue. - A is upset, because not only he's screwed by B, now he needs to fulfil his promise, but without seeing a penny. I don't understand, can't A get his shit together with B, or whatever, and still deliver, since well, you know, it's funded? From the perspective of everyone else, A/B is one entity, no?

Roritharr 12y ago
Oftentimes its not so easy to "get your shit together". When you've already misjudged the character of your partner to such a degree, you most likely didn't judge other aspects of the project as competently aswell, especially those in the domain of your partner. Without knowing any internals, funding sum, scope, what actually happened to the money, we can do nothing but speculate which is pointless.
tptacek 12y ago
Presumably "everyone" includes Kickstarter --- that is, as far as Kickstarter is concerned, A & B are the same entity as well. I'm not sure I see how it could work otherwise (but I don't know Kickstarter that well).
Red_Tarsius 12y ago
On top of that, B was a dear friend of A. Lesson: never trust anyone in business. Only the paranoid survive. Judging from her previous posts, I guess B had some sort of mental breakdown. Maybe too much stress, it often happens with hard deadlines. $182,000 don't make for a life changing hustle.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  > $182,000 don't make for a life changing hustle. That's half a millennium's income for the billion people on the planet who live on a dollar a day. There are plenty of folks for whom a few thousand dollars is life-changing.

DannoHung 12y ago

Uhh, isn't this when you file a lawsuit against your partner for failure to fulfill terms of the contract you agreed upon?

saalweachter 12y ago
Is absconding with company funds a civil or criminal ... crime? If I'm an employee at a game company and take $182,000 out of the company till and walk away, I'm pretty sure it's a criminal matter. If the owner of the game company walks away with all the money, is that merely a civil case, failure to honor contracts?
- bjt 12y ago
  There's civil liability in either case. Whether there's criminal liability would be a question of US state law (as opposed to federal), so it could vary depending on the state. As one example, New York law seems to say (based on quick Googling) that there would be criminal liability if it could be shown that the defendant intended to run away with the money instead of using it to fulfill the contract. http://www.nycrimblog.com/nycrim/2009/11/when-does-a-breach-of-contract-result-in-criminal-liability.html http://www.nycrimblog.com/nycrim/2009/11/when-does-a-breach-...
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Whether there's criminal liability would be a question of US state law (as opposed to federal), so it could vary depending on the state. Federal law could apply, as well, depending on the circumstances or means. I'm pretty sure I've seen cases where schemes where running away with the money was intended in -- that is, before particular parties were convinced to spend money that went to the company -- prosecuted under federal mail and/or wire fraud statutes

markcmyers 12y ago

I feel her pain, but in my book it's inappropriate for her to be painting herself as a victim. A business in which she was a principal cheated 3,000 people out of $182,000. Now she's wailing about being inconvenienced. She should sit down and write a personal apology to each of the backers who've been more than inconvenienced.

axus 12y ago
Tarol did post a public apology a while back, this situation has been going on for a while. Today's rant is about Kickstarter not sending the apology or information to the backer list before, but now is able to do so with false information. http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alternate-realities/ http://www.goblinscomic.org/lowtide-update-for-goblins-alter...

protomyth 12y ago

Why is the link showing this on a Barracuda: The link you are accessing has been blocked by the Barracuda Web Filter because it contains content belonging to the category of: Violence & Terrorism If you believe this is an error or need to access this link please contact your administrator. URL: http://www.goblinscomic.org

ColinDabritz 12y ago
The comic itself does contain violence, so from that perspective I don't think it's an unreasonable choice for a filter to label it 'Violence', and that's my guess as to why it was filtered. Having the category of 'Violence' conflated with 'Terrorism' is ridiculous.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

antoniuschan99 12y ago

It seems as though this is the consequence of the new business models where the business (in this case Kickstarter), don't actually own anything. And for that reason, aren't legally obligated to actually do much. This could be said for other sites like Uber, and AirBnb with similar business models. The good thing, in AirBnb's case, is there is an insurance policy for issues that happen. Kickstarter definitely needs to do something (maybe a rating system) to stop these cases from happening as often as they do. As for the backers, maybe just spend less on the amount you're funding.

makeitsuckless 12y ago
The thing is, it's simply a lie. The idea that the law doesn't cover these "innovative" and "disruptive" business models is an illusion. Uber, AirBnB, Kickstarter etcetera, they're not doing anything fundamentally new, they've just added a new coat of paint to a very old business model. A business model that is in most cases already clearly regulated (especially outside the US), and, especially in the case of Uber, these companies are deliberately flouting these laws and regulations. There is however a major difference in how these companies handle the problem. AirBnB constructively works with regulators to adapt both rules and its business practices. Uber treats the law with less respect than the Russian mob and thinks it can bully governments into surrendering consumer and labor protections. Kickstarter is mostly known for sticking its head in the sand an hoping things will blow over. But in all cases, the law tends to cover exploiting, profiting from, soliciting and provoking illegal activity as well as the scams themselves. These companies do not operate in a legal vacuum, other than the Silicon Vally echo chamber.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

Doesn't the goblins comic guy still owe content from the fundraiser that bought him a house a few years ago, or has that been resolved?

Kiro 12y ago

Who is the guy posting this and what's his involvement? Where can I get some background? Also, why did this just jump from like #2 to second page in just one page reload? Did someone flag it or how does it work? I see it happening a lot on HN; I remember some article on the front page and when I go back a couple of minutes later to read it it's gone.

bhouston 12y ago

This is the perfect situation to sue. You will win. Business is messy and sometimes when people act like dicks and take money but don't deliver, you need to sue. If you don't sue, you will get taken advantage of. Asking for Kickstarter to fix a situation is fine, but really you need to sue your former business partner and ask for them to cover court fees and even go for damages to your reputation.

nimblegorilla 12y ago
Just because you can win in court doesn't mean you can collect damages later. If the other guy set up a business then he is pretty safe. Kickstarter needs to fix situations like these.
dragontamer 12y ago
> This is the perfect situation to sue. You will win. Sue for what? Kickstarter doesn't have any obligations, and there doesn't seem to be any formal agreements between the author of this post and the gamemaker... and finally the author of the post is Canadian while the game-maker is American. Feel like figuring out the details of international trademark / copyright law to build up a case?

A_COMPUTER 12y ago

Here's a little more info about the company, the goblins comic guy contracted with. They also did another kickstarter for a card game for Kingdom of Loathing online game at around the same time. https://www.reddit.com/r/kol/comments/2b9xs5/update_for_international_backers_on_the_mr_card/ https://www.reddit.com/r/kol/comments/2b9xs5/update_for_inte... which was late and underdelivered and apparently the company tanked. Also, apparently the comic creator doesn't even have the list of kickstarter backers, only the game company did. He can't even directly email people. I'm not sure how he's verifying who kickstarted the game.

aikah 12y ago

Here is the KS page : http://web.archive.org/web/20140913060147/https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/336486938/goblins-alternate-realities http://web.archive.org/web/20140913060147/https://www.kickst... Evertide Games is the creator of the project,not the OP's business.