4 ms·

Maybe cyclists in SF are so special, but in LA I have yet to see a cyclist stopping at a stop sign. I walk to/from work about 2 miles each way and see about a d

Maybe cyclists in SF are so special, but in LA I have yet to see a cyclist stopping at a stop sign. I walk to/from work about 2 miles each way and see about a dozen cyclists every day. Sure, cars some times do not stop at the sign either but I don't see this happening nearly as often as I see cyclists just happily cycling through stop without even an attempt to slow down. And I see much more cars than bikes.

malka 12y ago
They are the same in France. Never saw a single cyclist stop at a red light.
- pandaman 12y ago
  I have seen some red light stops here. There are streets in LA that are physically impossible to cross at a red light.
santaclaus 12y ago
Safe bike culture varies wildly form city to city within the US. People in Portland are mad considerate (I've seen cyclists chide other cyclists for failing to use hand signals). NYC? I've seen bikers go the wrong way down Broadway in the UWS splitting lanes during rush hour.
- pascalo 12y ago
  Do you think there is a correlation between lack of usable infrastructure (even in the past) and rule breaking? When I grew up in Germany, infrastructure was good and people obeyed traffic signs etc, when I lived in London it was every man for himself, as abiding by the rules was often more dangerous than not, and sometimes not even possible.
maaaats 12y ago
Of course you have seen a bicycle stop for a stop sign. No need to lie, it throws away all points you're trying to make. Besides, this is the typical confirmation-biased anecdotes that pollutes these discussions. Have you thought of why this is so common? A bicycle uses human power, stopping is a much bigger hassle than sitting lazily in a car. And a bicycle approaches a stop sign much slower than a car, this having a better overview before crossing.
- c22 12y ago
  The bicyclist also enjoys a higher vantage point and less restrained view than the driver of a car. In some places the practice of rolling through stop signs on a bicycle is already being codified into law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop).
- pandaman 12y ago
  If I have seen - I don't remember doing so. As for why are they do not stop - I don't really care. The message I replied to said 90% bicyclists don't drive illegally, which contradicts my experience.
popopje 12y ago
Cyclists do not _want_ to be hit by vehicles - if they are not stopping, they have looked around and deemed the situation to be safe enough.. That's not to say it's legal, but they do not have a death wish.
- kelnos 12y ago
  Not really the point (though I agree with you): the grandparent suggested that 80-90% of cyclists follow the rules of the road. The parent (and I) disagree with that; no one's suggesting those people want to get hit or are inattentive, just that they're not abiding by traffic laws. In fact, it's somewhat telling that most bicycle fatalities don't involve a cyclist doing something stupid: most cyclist law-breaking is done when the cyclist believes it's safe to do so, and they're usually very attentive and aware of their surroundings for the duration. It's when the cyclist is in a normal state, and has no reason to expect a surprise attack-by-car, that the fatalities happen. (As a pedestrian, I very much sympathize with this. I tend to jaywalk quite often when walking, and when I do, I'm super attentive and ensure it's safe before crossing. It's probably more likely that I'd get hit by a car when I have the right of way than when jaywalking. But I'm still breaking the law, as is the cyclist when he/she runs a stop sign.)
  - c22 12y ago
    My observations suggest that close to 100% of road users are not strictly law abiding and likely break multiple rules during most trips.
    - kelnos 12y ago
      No one said they don't, and I'd agree with that. I think the whole law-abiding nature (or lack thereof) is a bit of a red herring when talking about this sort of thing. It's really just inattentiveness that causes drivers to hit cyclists, and a lack of awareness of cyclists in general. If a driver is about to make a right turn, he's often not thinking that a cyclist could be coming up on his right, from behind, so he doesn't even look there. That sort of thing is the real problem that needs to be fixed.

malka 12y ago

They are the same in France. Never saw a single cyclist stop at a red light.

pandaman 12y ago
I have seen some red light stops here. There are streets in LA that are physically impossible to cross at a red light.

santaclaus 12y ago

Safe bike culture varies wildly form city to city within the US. People in Portland are mad considerate (I've seen cyclists chide other cyclists for failing to use hand signals). NYC? I've seen bikers go the wrong way down Broadway in the UWS splitting lanes during rush hour.

pascalo 12y ago
Do you think there is a correlation between lack of usable infrastructure (even in the past) and rule breaking? When I grew up in Germany, infrastructure was good and people obeyed traffic signs etc, when I lived in London it was every man for himself, as abiding by the rules was often more dangerous than not, and sometimes not even possible.

maaaats 12y ago

Of course you have seen a bicycle stop for a stop sign. No need to lie, it throws away all points you're trying to make. Besides, this is the typical confirmation-biased anecdotes that pollutes these discussions. Have you thought of why this is so common? A bicycle uses human power, stopping is a much bigger hassle than sitting lazily in a car. And a bicycle approaches a stop sign much slower than a car, this having a better overview before crossing.

c22 12y ago
The bicyclist also enjoys a higher vantage point and less restrained view than the driver of a car. In some places the practice of rolling through stop signs on a bicycle is already being codified into law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop).
pandaman 12y ago
If I have seen - I don't remember doing so. As for why are they do not stop - I don't really care. The message I replied to said 90% bicyclists don't drive illegally, which contradicts my experience.

popopje 12y ago

Cyclists do not _want_ to be hit by vehicles - if they are not stopping, they have looked around and deemed the situation to be safe enough.. That's not to say it's legal, but they do not have a death wish.

kelnos 12y ago
Not really the point (though I agree with you): the grandparent suggested that 80-90% of cyclists follow the rules of the road. The parent (and I) disagree with that; no one's suggesting those people want to get hit or are inattentive, just that they're not abiding by traffic laws. In fact, it's somewhat telling that most bicycle fatalities don't involve a cyclist doing something stupid: most cyclist law-breaking is done when the cyclist believes it's safe to do so, and they're usually very attentive and aware of their surroundings for the duration. It's when the cyclist is in a normal state, and has no reason to expect a surprise attack-by-car, that the fatalities happen. (As a pedestrian, I very much sympathize with this. I tend to jaywalk quite often when walking, and when I do, I'm super attentive and ensure it's safe before crossing. It's probably more likely that I'd get hit by a car when I have the right of way than when jaywalking. But I'm still breaking the law, as is the cyclist when he/she runs a stop sign.)
- c22 12y ago
  My observations suggest that close to 100% of road users are not strictly law abiding and likely break multiple rules during most trips.
  - kelnos 12y ago
    No one said they don't, and I'd agree with that. I think the whole law-abiding nature (or lack thereof) is a bit of a red herring when talking about this sort of thing. It's really just inattentiveness that causes drivers to hit cyclists, and a lack of awareness of cyclists in general. If a driver is about to make a right turn, he's often not thinking that a cyclist could be coming up on his right, from behind, so he doesn't even look there. That sort of thing is the real problem that needs to be fixed.