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Yet the countdowns are also at intersections that have no middle place. In such cases, it's a binary decision, made for people of all ability ranges. The countd

Yet the countdowns are also at intersections that have no middle place. In such cases, it's a binary decision, made for people of all ability ranges. The countdown provides no useful information to act upon and should thus be removed. Though I agree - there should be some way to indicate "do not attempt crossing, even if you think you're so fast." Perhaps adjust the countdown and keep the hand for several seconds more than it is currently.

cauterized 12y ago
What does a median have to do with it? The countdown allows me to choose to cross if there are 20 sec left (enough time for me to get across anything less than an 8-lane highway) or not to cross till the next light if there are only 3 sec left when I reach the curb. With old-school flashing lights all I know is that the light will change soon, but gives me no idea HOW soon. In pedestrian friendly cities generally people will cross if it's flashing (esp. on a narrower street) because they have right of way. Heck, most of us will cross a one-way street AGAINST the light if the nearest oncoming car is a third of the way down the block. That's not the least bit dangerous and doesn't interrupt the flow of traffic.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  But the countdown occurs while the hand for no crossing is showing and that's jaywalking. Unless the point is to say "don't cross, unless you're fast". After the hand goes up, it should be just don't cross. Otherwise people will mostly try to outrun the light, especially in the US as there is little fear of a stopped driver hitting you (vs, say, Latin American countries).
  - cauterized 12y ago
    Yes, the flashing hand (countdown or not) has always been a warning that the light's about to change (like a yellow light for cars). Before the countdown clocks, it was meant to say "don't start crossing" but in most cities people didn't interpret it that way and would start crossing if they were fast walkers. Even if they didn't know how much longer it'd be flashing. The countdown clocks add that information so they can make an informed decision. I agree that LA shouldn't have bothered with the countdowns if they're going to consider starting across the intersection after the countdown has begun to be jaywalking.

cauterized 12y ago

What does a median have to do with it? The countdown allows me to choose to cross if there are 20 sec left (enough time for me to get across anything less than an 8-lane highway) or not to cross till the next light if there are only 3 sec left when I reach the curb. With old-school flashing lights all I know is that the light will change soon, but gives me no idea HOW soon. In pedestrian friendly cities generally people will cross if it's flashing (esp. on a narrower street) because they have right of way. Heck, most of us will cross a one-way street AGAINST the light if the nearest oncoming car is a third of the way down the block. That's not the least bit dangerous and doesn't interrupt the flow of traffic.

MichaelGG 12y ago
But the countdown occurs while the hand for no crossing is showing and that's jaywalking. Unless the point is to say "don't cross, unless you're fast". After the hand goes up, it should be just don't cross. Otherwise people will mostly try to outrun the light, especially in the US as there is little fear of a stopped driver hitting you (vs, say, Latin American countries).
- cauterized 12y ago
  Yes, the flashing hand (countdown or not) has always been a warning that the light's about to change (like a yellow light for cars). Before the countdown clocks, it was meant to say "don't start crossing" but in most cities people didn't interpret it that way and would start crossing if they were fast walkers. Even if they didn't know how much longer it'd be flashing. The countdown clocks add that information so they can make an informed decision. I agree that LA shouldn't have bothered with the countdowns if they're going to consider starting across the intersection after the countdown has begun to be jaywalking.