4 ms·

Do you realize that mobile devices like smartphones and tablets most often have a linux-based or an apple-delivered OS? Following Gartner [1], 60% of all devi

by madez 12y ago

Do you realize that mobile devices like smartphones and tablets most often have a linux-based or an apple-delivered OS? Following Gartner [1], 60% of all devices shipped in 2014 have an OS based on Linux or delivered by Apple. Do you think that a law that prohibits making other people slaves is non-free in nature? Because the GPL prohibits something similiar. [1] https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2954317 https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2954317

stonogo 12y ago
Your invocation of slavery to generate sympathy for your political goals is disgusting.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  No, it's quite similar. The GPL doesn't inhibit freedom, it inhibits the power to erode freedom.
  - oldmanjay 12y ago
    The only way you can consider this "quite similar" is if you are using a rhetorical flourish to manipulate the listener emotionally. Which is, of course, what is being done here, and not for the first time on this particular topic. Just remember, hyperbole serves no master. Employ it at the risk of having it employed right back against you.
    - cgag 12y ago
      The way I consider it quite similar is that the freedom to own slaves isn't a real freedom, neither is the freedom to use my code to restrict other people's freedom in computing.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      Can't you just accept that other people are honestly seeing something that you're (not seeing/see but don't agree with) rather than accusing people who disagree with you on this of being cynically dishonest?
      - fleitz 12y ago
        Are drivers licenses also a form of slavery because you're not allowed to drive with out one, and in order to keep it you have to follow most of the rules of the road? Most people would say that it's ridiculous to compare drivers licenses to slavery, even libertarians will tell you it's a loss of freedom but few would compare it to slavery, because for the most part drivers licenses and slavery have nothing in common.
    - baghira 12y ago
      Slavery is discussed in political philosophy all the time, even in "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" by Nozik (with which I happen to disagree, but that's nor here nor there). I did not read the first message as an hyperbole, but simply as a consequence of the fact that "enjoying freedoms while preventing others from enjoying them" brings slavery to mind quite often. It's an unfortunate, possibly unnecessary metaphor, but not necessarily a piece of rhetoric (although, like everything under the sun, it surely has been used to that effect as well).
  - jheriko 12y ago
    No, the GPL inhibits the power to make use of software. Its not really the same... Freedom is something we are born with, and I am free to do what I want with any software. The GPL asserts rights based on societal understanding to the contrary. Most nice licenses just ask for credit if its appropriate. This idea that having priority in solving a problem entitles you to something is harmful for the whole of society for the whole of the future.
- madez 12y ago
  A law that prohibits slavery was just the first - and now after thinking about it a very good - analogy for the situation at hand. A better one is welcome :) I wasn't advertising any political goals. I just thought that the idea behind the GPL wasn't understood and wanted to make it clearer.
- vcxzxcv 12y ago
  You're the one who brought politics into this.
jheriko 12y ago
do you realise i develop for these platforms amongst others? i don't just pull my opinion out of my arse, at least not entirely... :) your source of figures is very dodgy. you need to account for the devices that aren't brand new, and especially third world and the millions and millions of cheap androids and desktop pcs. looking at america or limiting to new purchases is very special and has nothing to do with the wider market (its not uncommon for people to have a "who buys these things new? what a bunch of idiots" mentality in poorer parts of the world). Apple do much better in the US than anywhere else, and new purchases are not the majority of devices in use in the wild. try a google search like this: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=desktop%20market%20share https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1... and pick from many many sources of more useful figures as you can see from very many sources, aside from OS X - which is not really a linux, gnu/linux may as well not exist.

by madez 12y ago

stonogo 12y ago

Your invocation of slavery to generate sympathy for your political goals is disgusting.

joshuapants 12y ago
No, it's quite similar. The GPL doesn't inhibit freedom, it inhibits the power to erode freedom.
- oldmanjay 12y ago
  The only way you can consider this "quite similar" is if you are using a rhetorical flourish to manipulate the listener emotionally. Which is, of course, what is being done here, and not for the first time on this particular topic. Just remember, hyperbole serves no master. Employ it at the risk of having it employed right back against you.
  - cgag 12y ago
    The way I consider it quite similar is that the freedom to own slaves isn't a real freedom, neither is the freedom to use my code to restrict other people's freedom in computing.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    Can't you just accept that other people are honestly seeing something that you're (not seeing/see but don't agree with) rather than accusing people who disagree with you on this of being cynically dishonest?
    - fleitz 12y ago
      Are drivers licenses also a form of slavery because you're not allowed to drive with out one, and in order to keep it you have to follow most of the rules of the road? Most people would say that it's ridiculous to compare drivers licenses to slavery, even libertarians will tell you it's a loss of freedom but few would compare it to slavery, because for the most part drivers licenses and slavery have nothing in common.
  - baghira 12y ago
    Slavery is discussed in political philosophy all the time, even in "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" by Nozik (with which I happen to disagree, but that's nor here nor there). I did not read the first message as an hyperbole, but simply as a consequence of the fact that "enjoying freedoms while preventing others from enjoying them" brings slavery to mind quite often. It's an unfortunate, possibly unnecessary metaphor, but not necessarily a piece of rhetoric (although, like everything under the sun, it surely has been used to that effect as well).
- jheriko 12y ago
  No, the GPL inhibits the power to make use of software. Its not really the same... Freedom is something we are born with, and I am free to do what I want with any software. The GPL asserts rights based on societal understanding to the contrary. Most nice licenses just ask for credit if its appropriate. This idea that having priority in solving a problem entitles you to something is harmful for the whole of society for the whole of the future.
madez 12y ago
A law that prohibits slavery was just the first - and now after thinking about it a very good - analogy for the situation at hand. A better one is welcome :) I wasn't advertising any political goals. I just thought that the idea behind the GPL wasn't understood and wanted to make it clearer.
vcxzxcv 12y ago
You're the one who brought politics into this.

jheriko 12y ago

do you realise i develop for these platforms amongst others? i don't just pull my opinion out of my arse, at least not entirely... :) your source of figures is very dodgy. you need to account for the devices that aren't brand new, and especially third world and the millions and millions of cheap androids and desktop pcs. looking at america or limiting to new purchases is very special and has nothing to do with the wider market (its not uncommon for people to have a "who buys these things new? what a bunch of idiots" mentality in poorer parts of the world). Apple do much better in the US than anywhere else, and new purchases are not the majority of devices in use in the wild. try a google search like this: https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=desktop%20market%20share https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1... and pick from many many sources of more useful figures as you can see from very many sources, aside from OS X - which is not really a linux, gnu/linux may as well not exist.