4 ms·

This is why I've negotiated for hourly pay at all of the jobs I've had so far. I feel like this is the most fair way to pay programmers. There is always an in

by jewel 12y ago

This is why I've negotiated for hourly pay at all of the jobs I've had so far. I feel like this is the most fair way to pay programmers. There is always an infinite list of work to do, so there's always pressure to work more hours. It doesn't matter if I work less hours in a given week, since my employer just pays me less. Also as an added benefit I also get time-and-a-half if I go over 40 hours. The downside is that I have to punch a time card, clocking out for lunch and for breaks. That doesn't bother me, but it'd be a big adjustment for salaried employees. I've been working this way for the past ten years and it's fantastic from a work-life balance perspective. I worked an average of 34 hours per week last year.

brianwawok 12y ago
Downside to this - Do you think about work on your off hours? Do you go read a tutorial on some new tech in the evening? You are then doing "unpaid" training... whereas if you are on salary, you can at least make some claim that the training and thinking you do off the clock is still working...
- Karunamon 12y ago
  This implies that a programmer has zero desire to program on their own time - and anecdotally, I don't know a single person like that. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know a single person in the tech field, period, that treats it the same way they'd treat flipping burgers. Every single person has a (cliché alert) passion for it that extends outside the workday.
  - Raphmedia 12y ago
    Programmer here. I have zero desire to program on my own time. Tried it. Felt like bringing work home. That being said, I avoid my computer like the plague these days. After spending all day sitting on a computer, the last thing I want to do when I get home is to sit and work on another computer.
    - saiya-jin 12y ago
      same story here, the more i got into sports and outdoor activities (climbing, mountaineering), less geeky i am, and looking back, no way i'm going back. heck, i don't even check email while travelling, at least not more than once a week. life is just so much more interesting outside pixelated areas, at least for me :) many more people work to live rather than opposite, but they're not as vocal on HN as the other part
  - imh 12y ago
    There are plenty of us that just think of work as, well, work. We just hide that fact because this whole industry pretends "passion" is a prerequisite for doing a good job. My hobbies are of an entirely different variety.
  - frobozz 12y ago
    No, it implies that a programmer has zero desire to do programming work for their employer in their own time. I know plenty of people like that, myself included. Although I count programming as one of my hobbies, as well as the way I earn a crust, the two activities are quite different.
- klibertp 12y ago
  Why would you hide it from your timelog? Reading a tutorial, if relevant for work is work. It's a large part of what we do as programmers. I never had any problems getting paid for a couple of hours spent in the evening or over the weekend on work. Well, to be honest there were clients who wouldn't like it, but those were the ones which didn't want to pay me at all in the first place.
wvenable 12y ago
Before I took the plunge and became a full time employee; this was the arrangement I had my with current employer. I was technically a contractor but I had full benefits, paid like an employee, etc. I provided a timesheet before each pay period. I must say, it was actually really nice. I would just decide to not come in here and there when I needed to. It was nice to have the freedom and feel like you could use it. It's the big thing I miss now that I'm expected to be in 9 to 5.
hashberry 12y ago
I prefer a salary as a full-time remote developer. No one looking over my shoulder and checking to see if I'm at my desk. My cumulative hours do not matter--only the quality of my work and meeting deadlines. I've been working remotely for five years and work less than 30 hours per week.
lawnchair_larry 12y ago
If you worked an average of 34 hours per week, this arrangement was even worse for you than if you were salaried.
- jewel 12y ago
  How so? I'm glad to trade 15% of my pay check in order to work 15% less hours. As a salaried employee I wouldn't have had the option. It's kind of like having 10 weeks of vacation instead of 3.

by jewel 12y ago

brianwawok 12y ago

Downside to this - Do you think about work on your off hours? Do you go read a tutorial on some new tech in the evening? You are then doing "unpaid" training... whereas if you are on salary, you can at least make some claim that the training and thinking you do off the clock is still working...

Karunamon 12y ago
This implies that a programmer has zero desire to program on their own time - and anecdotally, I don't know a single person like that. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know a single person in the tech field, period, that treats it the same way they'd treat flipping burgers. Every single person has a (cliché alert) passion for it that extends outside the workday.
- Raphmedia 12y ago
  Programmer here. I have zero desire to program on my own time. Tried it. Felt like bringing work home. That being said, I avoid my computer like the plague these days. After spending all day sitting on a computer, the last thing I want to do when I get home is to sit and work on another computer.
  - saiya-jin 12y ago
    same story here, the more i got into sports and outdoor activities (climbing, mountaineering), less geeky i am, and looking back, no way i'm going back. heck, i don't even check email while travelling, at least not more than once a week. life is just so much more interesting outside pixelated areas, at least for me :) many more people work to live rather than opposite, but they're not as vocal on HN as the other part
- imh 12y ago
  There are plenty of us that just think of work as, well, work. We just hide that fact because this whole industry pretends "passion" is a prerequisite for doing a good job. My hobbies are of an entirely different variety.
- frobozz 12y ago
  No, it implies that a programmer has zero desire to do programming work for their employer in their own time. I know plenty of people like that, myself included. Although I count programming as one of my hobbies, as well as the way I earn a crust, the two activities are quite different.
klibertp 12y ago
Why would you hide it from your timelog? Reading a tutorial, if relevant for work is work. It's a large part of what we do as programmers. I never had any problems getting paid for a couple of hours spent in the evening or over the weekend on work. Well, to be honest there were clients who wouldn't like it, but those were the ones which didn't want to pay me at all in the first place.

wvenable 12y ago

Before I took the plunge and became a full time employee; this was the arrangement I had my with current employer. I was technically a contractor but I had full benefits, paid like an employee, etc. I provided a timesheet before each pay period. I must say, it was actually really nice. I would just decide to not come in here and there when I needed to. It was nice to have the freedom and feel like you could use it. It's the big thing I miss now that I'm expected to be in 9 to 5.

hashberry 12y ago

I prefer a salary as a full-time remote developer. No one looking over my shoulder and checking to see if I'm at my desk. My cumulative hours do not matter--only the quality of my work and meeting deadlines. I've been working remotely for five years and work less than 30 hours per week.

lawnchair_larry 12y ago

If you worked an average of 34 hours per week, this arrangement was even worse for you than if you were salaried.

jewel 12y ago
How so? I'm glad to trade 15% of my pay check in order to work 15% less hours. As a salaried employee I wouldn't have had the option. It's kind of like having 10 weeks of vacation instead of 3.