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Awesome article. This is something much of the HN crowd will have trouble coming to terms with I'm sure. An actual woman programmer (that is, not a tech journal

Awesome article. This is something much of the HN crowd will have trouble coming to terms with I'm sure. An actual woman programmer (that is, not a tech journalist/some other peripheral body commenting on an industry they are not intimate with) who (apparently) sees behind the veil of getting as many on-the-fence women kinda-sorta interested in programming into the field in an effort for an employer/organization to say "Look, we're diverse! Look at how many women we employ!" while being 100% disingenuous in the same breath.

tptacek 12y ago
Are you sure you didn't just write: "An 'actual women programmer' said something from which I can extrapolate into my own agenda?" Also: if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? Right is right, wrong is wrong.
- philh 12y ago
  > if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? There seems to be a strand of thought which claims that men have nothing to say on these issues. Pointing out that the author is a woman may be an attempt to head off such objections.
  - gaius 12y ago
    Keep an eye on such people. If they are white, do they feel entitled to voice their opinions on race issues? If they are middle class, or went to a $40,000/year college, do they expect to be heard when they speak about poverty? That will be enlightening.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Kalium 12y ago
  > Also: if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? Right is right, wrong is wrong. This depends greatly on who the commentator is. Meredith's recent piece touched on this - https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c To some, you do not get to have a voice unless you comply with certain identity requirements. How right or wrong you are is irrelevant unless you have the identity that says you get to speak. To others, such as us, this is madness and truth is no respecter of identities.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    That idea keeps creeping up, but it isn't just in our group it won't fly. Reality doesn't care what you are or what your feelings are - in a vaccum a feather and a steel ball fall at the same speed, regardless of your opinions, feelings or suggestions on the matter. So in this case our POV is absolutely right. (Feelings do matter when you deal with humans, but that is also the only area in which they do).
    - Kalium 12y ago
      Our POV is right to us because we accept the concept of objectivity. To those who believe identity is the primary determinant of truth, it doesn't matter what we believe. And so we're going to keep arguing with them right up to the point where we collectively decide to ignore them. Which isn't likely to happen any time soon, given how many of them work in the tech press.

tptacek 12y ago

Are you sure you didn't just write: "An 'actual women programmer' said something from which I can extrapolate into my own agenda?" Also: if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? Right is right, wrong is wrong.

philh 12y ago
> if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? There seems to be a strand of thought which claims that men have nothing to say on these issues. Pointing out that the author is a woman may be an attempt to head off such objections.
- gaius 12y ago
  Keep an eye on such people. If they are white, do they feel entitled to voice their opinions on race issues? If they are middle class, or went to a $40,000/year college, do they expect to be heard when they speak about poverty? That will be enlightening.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Kalium 12y ago
> Also: if what they wrote was right, what does it matter what their gender is? Right is right, wrong is wrong. This depends greatly on who the commentator is. Meredith's recent piece touched on this - https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c https://medium.com/@maradydd/when-nerds-collide-31895b01e68c To some, you do not get to have a voice unless you comply with certain identity requirements. How right or wrong you are is irrelevant unless you have the identity that says you get to speak. To others, such as us, this is madness and truth is no respecter of identities.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  That idea keeps creeping up, but it isn't just in our group it won't fly. Reality doesn't care what you are or what your feelings are - in a vaccum a feather and a steel ball fall at the same speed, regardless of your opinions, feelings or suggestions on the matter. So in this case our POV is absolutely right. (Feelings do matter when you deal with humans, but that is also the only area in which they do).
  - Kalium 12y ago
    Our POV is right to us because we accept the concept of objectivity. To those who believe identity is the primary determinant of truth, it doesn't matter what we believe. And so we're going to keep arguing with them right up to the point where we collectively decide to ignore them. Which isn't likely to happen any time soon, given how many of them work in the tech press.