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It has always bothered me that it's so common for people (including me) to say something like, "Man I've been working since 7:30 this morning" as a way of bragg

It has always bothered me that it's so common for people (including me) to say something like, "Man I've been working since 7:30 this morning" as a way of bragging "oh look at me I have such good work ethic, I'm so much better than people who work less than me." But what really bothers me about it is that it's so hard to NOT work that much when other people ARE working that much. Like sometimes I'll come into work in the morning and there will be pages upon pages of conversation from the night before on HipChat. I have to now read all that stuff and try to understand the context or I'll fall behind just because I didn't want to stay up until midnight working. I recently took a vacation. Only 4 days. I had a lot of fun but I couldn't help but feel regret for taking a vacation when I got back and realized how far behind I was because of how much stuff has moved on in just 4 days. So am I part of this cult? Yes, absolutely. Luckily for me I'm not super deep into it: I still go to the gym and play piano. But I know I have a problem because every time I think about having kids, this resentment wells up inside of me because I know having a kid will make me less competitive at work. That can't be healthy... but I'm competitive and I fear getting left behind because my co-workers might choose NOT to start a family and instead stay up until midnight working.

eropple 11y ago
Consider re-framing. I choose not to be overly competitive at work because I'd rather be competitive at things that matter. Very few of us are changing the world. Relatively few of us are really making it better. I'd rather push hard on things that do those things (or, failing that, make me better, and work doesn't).
- EliRivers 11y ago
  Consider re-framing. I choose not to be overly competitive at work Fuck yeah. I re-framed and now I compete at home. I eat dinner and doze off on the sofa like a mother fucking CHAMPION :)
Loughla 11y ago
I've been there. I'm officially topped out in my career field for the next 20(ish) years because of children. Anyone who moves past my current point either has no obligations, or have children who are out of the house as adults already. I made the choice to not let that stuff bother me. I miss out on some choice assignments. I miss out on some really interesting work. I miss many late-night brainstorming sessions and conversations with coworkers that are intellectually and professionally stimulating. But I also got to take my kid to the circus for the first time last fall, I took two weeks' vacation this spring to just monkey around with the 2 year old for a while because the weather was supposed to be nice and trees were starting to leaf out, and tonight we have a play-date at a local jungle-gym while I know some of the other individuals at my level will be here until 8 or 9 working on a new center (and big-time resume boost). As with everything, it's all about identifying and sticking to your priorities. You'll lose in some aspects professionally, but work isn't everything. What did it for me was volunteering at a nursing home. Listen to the folks in those places. Do they talk about the choice work assignments they had? Do they talk fondly about the long hours they worked? The money they made? The stuff they bought? Nope. They talk about travel, family and friends.
- cousin_it 11y ago
  > I miss out on some choice assignments. I miss out on some really interesting work. I miss many late-night brainstorming sessions and conversations with coworkers that are intellectually and professionally stimulating. That's not very nice of them, actually. Have you tried raising the point (civilly, of course) that it might be more convenient to switch to midday brainstorming instead of late night? A good employer ought to play to everyone's strengths.
  - sheepmullet 11y ago
    At most companies sitting around and brainstorming etc is not really considered work. Nobody really minds when you are doing it late at night though.
- Balgair 11y ago
  Here, here! When people are at the end of their lives, what do they talk about, what do they remember as the happy times, the times that were worth savoring and experiencing. Just google it. People specifically say that time spent at work, though not a total loss, was not typically worth remembering. Those extra 30 minutes a day at the desk or shovel? Not worth it. Harvard ran a study for about 70 years on their business school grads. It's admittedly biased towards rich WASPy males, but it's the best we have thus far for study. The results: When controlling for drinking and smoking, LOVE is the single greatest factor for a happy, long, and fulfilling life. FULL STOP. Love wins the game of life; bet on love. So, when you prioritize your life, keep the end in mind. Memento Mori. Your family, friends, travel, dinners, those are the things that matter. Yes, you have to work, but do not think that work will love you.
themoonbus 11y ago
One of my favorite articles on the social custom of bragging about how busy you are http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-trap/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-tra... "Busyness serves as a kind of existential reassurance, a hedge against emptiness; obviously your life cannot possibly be silly or trivial or meaningless if you are so busy, completely booked, in demand every hour of the day."
- mateo411 11y ago
  The writer of the article is Tim Kreider. I really like his writing. If you like that article, you might like other things he has written.
varelse 11y ago
And I might I say that a lot of this overwork in the open office culture of today is catalyzed by constant interruptions, pointless context thrashing, and endless meetings cough Agile: you're doing it wrong(tm) cough.
kamaal 11y ago
>>it's so hard to NOT work that much when other people ARE working that much. End result of work matters here. If you are ridiculously rich and able to afford luxurious lifestyle as a result of your hard work. People around you who don't work the same hours as you do and are not as rich, will look like people who can only blame themselves for not getting far in life. These kind of social pressures simply keep going up after a while. Having a family kind of amplifies it. You are eventually going to run into rich people in your social circles, and comparisons will be inevitable. Very few people work like mad because they love to. Generally there is no way out.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  few incorrect assumptions. almost none ridiculously rich (and here we can differ what it means) got there by simply putting in few extra hours. People that stuck in jobs and doing extra hours actually ended up paid less than me in long run, sometimes the difference is massive. I've met a few rich ones, dated one, and simply put, there is nothing in their life I envy, and I wouldn't change for their life no matter what (rich in millions/tens of millions of usd). There are only few really important things in life, and only few things that make people really happy (no, new phone ain't one of those). When comparing how they spend vacation, I end up with much more creative, adventurous and full experiences. When comparing how to spend free time, similar results (but here it's also about personal preferences). I'm not advocating money-less world, but most of us here have/can have enough to cover all we really need. If you see a long term happy person, money ain't the primary reason he is where he is.
rwallace 11y ago
It's important to recognize that there are many competitions in which being ahead has negative value. When I was a teenager, I occasionally indulged in drinking competitions. If I challenged you to a drinking competition today, would you accept? Would you feel bad that I was ahead of you because I drank more? Would you find it hard to not start drinking at 7:30 in the morning to keep up? Would you resent the idea of having kids because it would mean drinking less? Working is like drinking: fine in moderation, an unwise thing to turn into a competition, poisonous and destructive in prolonged excess. Anytime you find yourself tempted to get into a working competition, think of it as being tempted to get into a drinking competition.

eropple 11y ago

Consider re-framing. I choose not to be overly competitive at work because I'd rather be competitive at things that matter. Very few of us are changing the world. Relatively few of us are really making it better. I'd rather push hard on things that do those things (or, failing that, make me better, and work doesn't).

EliRivers 11y ago
Consider re-framing. I choose not to be overly competitive at work Fuck yeah. I re-framed and now I compete at home. I eat dinner and doze off on the sofa like a mother fucking CHAMPION :)

Loughla 11y ago

I've been there. I'm officially topped out in my career field for the next 20(ish) years because of children. Anyone who moves past my current point either has no obligations, or have children who are out of the house as adults already. I made the choice to not let that stuff bother me. I miss out on some choice assignments. I miss out on some really interesting work. I miss many late-night brainstorming sessions and conversations with coworkers that are intellectually and professionally stimulating. But I also got to take my kid to the circus for the first time last fall, I took two weeks' vacation this spring to just monkey around with the 2 year old for a while because the weather was supposed to be nice and trees were starting to leaf out, and tonight we have a play-date at a local jungle-gym while I know some of the other individuals at my level will be here until 8 or 9 working on a new center (and big-time resume boost). As with everything, it's all about identifying and sticking to your priorities. You'll lose in some aspects professionally, but work isn't everything. What did it for me was volunteering at a nursing home. Listen to the folks in those places. Do they talk about the choice work assignments they had? Do they talk fondly about the long hours they worked? The money they made? The stuff they bought? Nope. They talk about travel, family and friends.

cousin_it 11y ago
> I miss out on some choice assignments. I miss out on some really interesting work. I miss many late-night brainstorming sessions and conversations with coworkers that are intellectually and professionally stimulating. That's not very nice of them, actually. Have you tried raising the point (civilly, of course) that it might be more convenient to switch to midday brainstorming instead of late night? A good employer ought to play to everyone's strengths.
- sheepmullet 11y ago
  At most companies sitting around and brainstorming etc is not really considered work. Nobody really minds when you are doing it late at night though.
Balgair 11y ago
Here, here! When people are at the end of their lives, what do they talk about, what do they remember as the happy times, the times that were worth savoring and experiencing. Just google it. People specifically say that time spent at work, though not a total loss, was not typically worth remembering. Those extra 30 minutes a day at the desk or shovel? Not worth it. Harvard ran a study for about 70 years on their business school grads. It's admittedly biased towards rich WASPy males, but it's the best we have thus far for study. The results: When controlling for drinking and smoking, LOVE is the single greatest factor for a happy, long, and fulfilling life. FULL STOP. Love wins the game of life; bet on love. So, when you prioritize your life, keep the end in mind. Memento Mori. Your family, friends, travel, dinners, those are the things that matter. Yes, you have to work, but do not think that work will love you.

themoonbus 11y ago

One of my favorite articles on the social custom of bragging about how busy you are http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-trap/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/the-busy-tra... "Busyness serves as a kind of existential reassurance, a hedge against emptiness; obviously your life cannot possibly be silly or trivial or meaningless if you are so busy, completely booked, in demand every hour of the day."

mateo411 11y ago
The writer of the article is Tim Kreider. I really like his writing. If you like that article, you might like other things he has written.

varelse 11y ago

And I might I say that a lot of this overwork in the open office culture of today is catalyzed by constant interruptions, pointless context thrashing, and endless meetings cough Agile: you're doing it wrong(tm) cough.

kamaal 11y ago

>>it's so hard to NOT work that much when other people ARE working that much. End result of work matters here. If you are ridiculously rich and able to afford luxurious lifestyle as a result of your hard work. People around you who don't work the same hours as you do and are not as rich, will look like people who can only blame themselves for not getting far in life. These kind of social pressures simply keep going up after a while. Having a family kind of amplifies it. You are eventually going to run into rich people in your social circles, and comparisons will be inevitable. Very few people work like mad because they love to. Generally there is no way out.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
saiya-jin 11y ago
few incorrect assumptions. almost none ridiculously rich (and here we can differ what it means) got there by simply putting in few extra hours. People that stuck in jobs and doing extra hours actually ended up paid less than me in long run, sometimes the difference is massive. I've met a few rich ones, dated one, and simply put, there is nothing in their life I envy, and I wouldn't change for their life no matter what (rich in millions/tens of millions of usd). There are only few really important things in life, and only few things that make people really happy (no, new phone ain't one of those). When comparing how they spend vacation, I end up with much more creative, adventurous and full experiences. When comparing how to spend free time, similar results (but here it's also about personal preferences). I'm not advocating money-less world, but most of us here have/can have enough to cover all we really need. If you see a long term happy person, money ain't the primary reason he is where he is.

rwallace 11y ago

It's important to recognize that there are many competitions in which being ahead has negative value. When I was a teenager, I occasionally indulged in drinking competitions. If I challenged you to a drinking competition today, would you accept? Would you feel bad that I was ahead of you because I drank more? Would you find it hard to not start drinking at 7:30 in the morning to keep up? Would you resent the idea of having kids because it would mean drinking less? Working is like drinking: fine in moderation, an unwise thing to turn into a competition, poisonous and destructive in prolonged excess. Anytime you find yourself tempted to get into a working competition, think of it as being tempted to get into a drinking competition.