8 ms·

FYI, $180/hour is phenomenal by nearly anyone's standards. Nothing wrong with pushing for higher, just don't get worked up trying to keep up with the McKenzies

FYI, $180/hour is phenomenal by nearly anyone's standards. Nothing wrong with pushing for higher, just don't get worked up trying to keep up with the McKenzies.

tptacek 12y ago
$1440/day is a decent middling daily rate. Specialize, and bear in mind that you can actually specialize in charging more.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  "you can actually specialize in charging more" Okay, there was probably a post that explained what you mean here and I missed it. How does "I cost more?" become a specialty?
  - tptacek 12y ago
    It changes which projects you get, and alters the opportunity cost of the projects you end up spending time on.
    - sarciszewski 12y ago
      This makes sense. Sort of, "If you charge more, you'll find yourself a specialist."
      - cat9 12y ago
        If you charge more, people don't bother you with nearly as much low-ROI scut work, which means you (assuming you can deliver) find yourself focusing on more interesting & more valuable work that has a stronger connection to attracting and keeping high-value clients.
        davidw 12y ago
        Well, that, or you can't find work at all.
        chc 12y ago
        Yes, there's an Underpants Gnomes quality to this sort of career advice. It's not bad, but there's a giant "?" in the middle that nobody can really help you with, which seems to involve accumulating a huge base of clients beating down your door.
        sarciszewski 12y ago
        Personal and business relationships vary from person to person. I guess the assumption is that, if you are skilled enough at engineering and marketing, you will find yourself getting clients and make money hand over fist. Unfortunately for me, I'm purely a technology guy, not a people person.
        roel_v 12y ago
        "Unfortunately for me, I'm purely a technology guy, not a people person." This is bullshit. People can change. You can change yourself. 'I only do tech' is an excuse to not have to go outside your comfort zone. Of course it's a big change. Of course it's scary. Of course you don't know exactly how to get from A to B. But just giving up with a 'this is how I was born' is defeatism.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        tptacek 12y ago
        Serious question: Patrick was about as well known on the Business of Software message boards as you are on HN when his consulting career started. Those boards no longer exist and were always smaller than HN. Prior to consulting he held what is probably the lowest- status job in software development. What do you think the secret ???'s were for him?
  - fixxer 12y ago
    I think what he means is that with higher rates, you get the luxury of domain specialization.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      That's also true but I literally mean "you can specialize in having higher rates"; I'm not just saying "if you have higher rates you'll have free time to find more lucrative specialties". You can change nothing else about your practice but your bill rate and have a good chance of succeeding.
      - sarciszewski 12y ago
        What happens when you hit a bill rate that nobody wants to pay? (e.g. $50k/week or something ridiculous) There has to be a limiting factor somewhere.
        nostrademons 12y ago
        The limiting factor is how much value you add to their business. That can be a lot, eg. I could easily imagine patio11 adding $50K of value in a week's time by introducing a marketing campaign that sells $500K of product, or Matasano adding that much value by fixing a security hole that would cost more than $1M in lost goodwill. One of my fiancee's B-school professors specializes in pricing theory. He can make several million dollars in one consulting engagement, because he tells companies where they should price their products to maximize revenue, and so he just needs to charge some fraction of ($new_revenue - $old_revenue), which is usually measured in millions.
      - waterlesscloud 12y ago
        While I accept this is likely true, I still have a hard time incorporating it into my thinking. I think I spent too much time as an employee, a relationship in which every increase in salary needs elaborate over-justification. Consulting isn't like that.
        12y ago
  - DanielBMarkham 12y ago
    Think of it as a machine, a big funnel. Narrow your skills and experience, pump more people into the top of the funnel, increase your ability to charge more. (But of course you only get what you ask for)

FYI, $180/hour is phenomenal by nearly anyone's standards. Nothing wrong with pushing for higher, just don't get worked up trying to keep up with the McKenzies.

tptacek 12y ago

$1440/day is a decent middling daily rate. Specialize, and bear in mind that you can actually specialize in charging more.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sarciszewski 12y ago
"you can actually specialize in charging more" Okay, there was probably a post that explained what you mean here and I missed it. How does "I cost more?" become a specialty?
- tptacek 12y ago
  It changes which projects you get, and alters the opportunity cost of the projects you end up spending time on.
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    This makes sense. Sort of, "If you charge more, you'll find yourself a specialist."
    - cat9 12y ago
      If you charge more, people don't bother you with nearly as much low-ROI scut work, which means you (assuming you can deliver) find yourself focusing on more interesting & more valuable work that has a stronger connection to attracting and keeping high-value clients.
      - davidw 12y ago
        Well, that, or you can't find work at all.
        chc 12y ago
        Yes, there's an Underpants Gnomes quality to this sort of career advice. It's not bad, but there's a giant "?" in the middle that nobody can really help you with, which seems to involve accumulating a huge base of clients beating down your door.
        sarciszewski 12y ago
        Personal and business relationships vary from person to person. I guess the assumption is that, if you are skilled enough at engineering and marketing, you will find yourself getting clients and make money hand over fist. Unfortunately for me, I'm purely a technology guy, not a people person.
        roel_v 12y ago
        "Unfortunately for me, I'm purely a technology guy, not a people person." This is bullshit. People can change. You can change yourself. 'I only do tech' is an excuse to not have to go outside your comfort zone. Of course it's a big change. Of course it's scary. Of course you don't know exactly how to get from A to B. But just giving up with a 'this is how I was born' is defeatism.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        tptacek 12y ago
        Serious question: Patrick was about as well known on the Business of Software message boards as you are on HN when his consulting career started. Those boards no longer exist and were always smaller than HN. Prior to consulting he held what is probably the lowest- status job in software development. What do you think the secret ???'s were for him?
- fixxer 12y ago
  I think what he means is that with higher rates, you get the luxury of domain specialization.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    That's also true but I literally mean "you can specialize in having higher rates"; I'm not just saying "if you have higher rates you'll have free time to find more lucrative specialties". You can change nothing else about your practice but your bill rate and have a good chance of succeeding.
    - sarciszewski 12y ago
      What happens when you hit a bill rate that nobody wants to pay? (e.g. $50k/week or something ridiculous) There has to be a limiting factor somewhere.
      - nostrademons 12y ago
        The limiting factor is how much value you add to their business. That can be a lot, eg. I could easily imagine patio11 adding $50K of value in a week's time by introducing a marketing campaign that sells $500K of product, or Matasano adding that much value by fixing a security hole that would cost more than $1M in lost goodwill. One of my fiancee's B-school professors specializes in pricing theory. He can make several million dollars in one consulting engagement, because he tells companies where they should price their products to maximize revenue, and so he just needs to charge some fraction of ($new_revenue - $old_revenue), which is usually measured in millions.
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      While I accept this is likely true, I still have a hard time incorporating it into my thinking. I think I spent too much time as an employee, a relationship in which every increase in salary needs elaborate over-justification. Consulting isn't like that.
      - 12y ago
- DanielBMarkham 12y ago
  Think of it as a machine, a big funnel. Narrow your skills and experience, pump more people into the top of the funnel, increase your ability to charge more. (But of course you only get what you ask for)