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> Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? No. Stop with these stupid stop-gap measures. Income taxes are inherently flawed on so many levels, it's absurd

by maratd 12y ago

> Would You Let the I.R.S. Prepare Your Taxes? No. Stop with these stupid stop-gap measures. Income taxes are inherently flawed on so many levels, it's absurd. They're difficult to calculate, easy to cheat on, don't tax swaths of people who don't have a traditional income, cause grief every year and untold resources to calculate, verify, audit, etc. Just stop. A national sales tax, property tax, or frankly, any other option, would be better by far.

raldi 12y ago
If you had read the article before posting, you'd have realized that what it's calling for would solve every problem you just raised.
- maratd 12y ago
  Thanks, but I read the article before it was even posted to HN and it doesn't even come close to resolving anything for anyone who's self-employed or has their own business. It might resolve the problem for some people, in a marginal manner, but overall, it doesn't do much.
  - s73v3r 12y ago
    So because it doesn't help you, even though it would help the vast majority of people, we shouldn't do it.
    - maratd 12y ago
      Is that what I said? I think I said there are better options that would help everyone even more. We should explore those instead. Also, if the government has all the information necessary to do your income taxes properly, then it'll literally take you 5 minutes to fill out the form. You receive the same forms they do, just plug in the numbers. The PDF version will calculate everything for you. The problem is that the vast majority of people have DEDUCTIONS and the government has no idea what those are, so this wouldn't work for them.
      - ianburrell 12y ago
        The vast majority of people take the standard deduction. Only about third of taxpayers itemize deductions. Many of those would probably be covered by mortgage interest and donations which the IRS already knows about. The self employed and wealthy probably would still need to do their taxes. Self employed is only 7% of workforce. Even their taxes would be easier because they would know all of the info that the IRS collected and wouldn't have to collect the paper forms.
15155 12y ago
> easy to cheat on > national sales tax Haha, good luck with that. Sales taxes are substantially easier to cheat than income taxes for most people. Nationalizing sales taxes just provides more incentive to cheat. https://craigslist.org https://craigslist.org
- objclxt 12y ago
  Sales taxes are also a regressive tax. Low income households and those living paycheck to paycheck end up paying as a proportion of their income far more than high income households, since they consume more relative to the money coming in (and there's no exemption or deduction).
  - 15155 12y ago
    I was going to comment this as well. OR has no sales tax, everyone goes crazy about it, yet they have one of the highest income taxes in the nation. Even for the poorest, it's very difficult for that to be a good bargain.
    - bhayden 12y ago
      I moved from a state with no income tax and a sales tax to Oregon. I don't make six figures and I definitely pay more in OR state income tax than I did in sales tax in my previous state.
      - 15155 12y ago
        6-8% of taxable expenditures, by definition, will equal less than the equivalent state income tax. Even if you spend every dime you make, your expenditure will almost never be completely sales-taxable (in our current system). The national, tax-everything sales tax doesn't tax idle money. People with money have lots of it and can spend it non-domestically.
        maratd 12y ago
        > The national, tax-everything sales tax doesn't tax idle money. There's no such thing as idle money. As soon as you deposit it in a bank, it gets loaned out to someone else who spends it. > People with money have lots of it and can spend it non-domestically. Even now, you're obligated to report any purchases made outside the jurisdiction and pay sales taxes on that yourself. I'm not suggesting we abolish the IRS. They should still be around and do audits and enforce the law, especially in such cases.

by maratd 12y ago

raldi 12y ago

If you had read the article before posting, you'd have realized that what it's calling for would solve every problem you just raised.

maratd 12y ago
Thanks, but I read the article before it was even posted to HN and it doesn't even come close to resolving anything for anyone who's self-employed or has their own business. It might resolve the problem for some people, in a marginal manner, but overall, it doesn't do much.
- s73v3r 12y ago
  So because it doesn't help you, even though it would help the vast majority of people, we shouldn't do it.
  - maratd 12y ago
    Is that what I said? I think I said there are better options that would help everyone even more. We should explore those instead. Also, if the government has all the information necessary to do your income taxes properly, then it'll literally take you 5 minutes to fill out the form. You receive the same forms they do, just plug in the numbers. The PDF version will calculate everything for you. The problem is that the vast majority of people have DEDUCTIONS and the government has no idea what those are, so this wouldn't work for them.
    - ianburrell 12y ago
      The vast majority of people take the standard deduction. Only about third of taxpayers itemize deductions. Many of those would probably be covered by mortgage interest and donations which the IRS already knows about. The self employed and wealthy probably would still need to do their taxes. Self employed is only 7% of workforce. Even their taxes would be easier because they would know all of the info that the IRS collected and wouldn't have to collect the paper forms.

15155 12y ago

> easy to cheat on > national sales tax Haha, good luck with that. Sales taxes are substantially easier to cheat than income taxes for most people. Nationalizing sales taxes just provides more incentive to cheat. https://craigslist.org https://craigslist.org

objclxt 12y ago
Sales taxes are also a regressive tax. Low income households and those living paycheck to paycheck end up paying as a proportion of their income far more than high income households, since they consume more relative to the money coming in (and there's no exemption or deduction).
- 15155 12y ago
  I was going to comment this as well. OR has no sales tax, everyone goes crazy about it, yet they have one of the highest income taxes in the nation. Even for the poorest, it's very difficult for that to be a good bargain.
  - bhayden 12y ago
    I moved from a state with no income tax and a sales tax to Oregon. I don't make six figures and I definitely pay more in OR state income tax than I did in sales tax in my previous state.
    - 15155 12y ago
      6-8% of taxable expenditures, by definition, will equal less than the equivalent state income tax. Even if you spend every dime you make, your expenditure will almost never be completely sales-taxable (in our current system). The national, tax-everything sales tax doesn't tax idle money. People with money have lots of it and can spend it non-domestically.
      - maratd 12y ago
        > The national, tax-everything sales tax doesn't tax idle money. There's no such thing as idle money. As soon as you deposit it in a bank, it gets loaned out to someone else who spends it. > People with money have lots of it and can spend it non-domestically. Even now, you're obligated to report any purchases made outside the jurisdiction and pay sales taxes on that yourself. I'm not suggesting we abolish the IRS. They should still be around and do audits and enforce the law, especially in such cases.