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As an American living in Italy, there really are more taxes and "death by a thousand cut" fees and rules here than in the US, from what I've seen. I like to pa

As an American living in Italy, there really are more taxes and "death by a thousand cut" fees and rules here than in the US, from what I've seen. I like to pay a little more tax and actually have a decent healthcare system, social security net, and retirement. One of the problems is that many of the large US corporations legally avoid tax via one of the tax havens (including my country of origin, The Netherlands). It creates an uneven playing field. There is no reason why European companies couldn't compete. Taxes may be higher, but wages are lower, and costs may be significantly lower if you are in east Europe. I also don't completely agree with the sentiment that started this thread, there are also plenty of European startups/ex-startups doing well: Booking.com, Spotify, Rovio, Mojang (Swedish) was just bought by Microsoft for 2.5 billion, Skype was also a European before it was purchased by Microsoft.

davidw 12y ago
This is a complex topic: * There are taxes and taxes. Pay a % every month, simply and easily? That's not such a big deal - everyone has different tollerances and preferences, but it is what it is. Italy has lots of little, annoying taxes and gotchas, though, which take a lot of time and are irritating. For businesses, a lot of these need to be paid even if the business is not profitable (like startups!). * Healthcare is actually more expensive in the US as a % of GDP. "Europe" wins there in my personal experience. For businesses it's easier too: no shopping around for health insurance. * Social security changes a lot from country to country. Italy's system does not really seem to be working that well to me, though. * Retirement. I don't trust either the Italian or US systems. I hope yours works better. My point was mostly that it's all the small - and constant - annoyances that make life harder for a small business here in Italy. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21606293-small-businesses-fret-less-about-taxes-over-regulation-red-tape-blues http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21606293-small-b... - this kind of backs up what I said - it's not the overall level of taxation so much as the 'hassle' factor. I would suspect that things are better in the Nordic countries, and maybe the Netherlands too.
- eitally 12y ago
  Brazil is exactly the same!
- eitally 12y ago
  Brazil is exactly the same!
- danieldk 12y ago
  I agree that the taxation systems in Europe can be simplified and changed to benefit startups a little more. I would suspect that things are better in the Nordic countries, and maybe the Netherlands too. Definitely. I have my gripes about social security in The Netherlands and I think basic income would be better, but social security is pretty good: 75% of the last income for the first two months, 70% for the remainder of the year. After that, a single gets Euro 960.83 per month, a married couple Euro 1,372.62 per month, plus an extra amount quarterly per child (which IIRC everyone, including working people, gets). With regards to retirements, everyone gets so-called 'AOW' (850,97 per month or 2 * 586,56). Normally when you work, you also collect money in a private pension, which gets added to the AOW. AOW is directly paid by taxes, the private pension is a fund. Normally, when you work all your life, AOW + pension + home ownership gives you a royal retirement.
pjc50 12y ago
The cost is not so much the tax, but the work that must be done in order to comply with it. This ends up as a deadweight loss. Regulations also set the minimal viable size of a business. Small manufacturing businesses of all kinds are beset by the CE compliance requirements.

davidw 12y ago

This is a complex topic: * There are taxes and taxes. Pay a % every month, simply and easily? That's not such a big deal - everyone has different tollerances and preferences, but it is what it is. Italy has lots of little, annoying taxes and gotchas, though, which take a lot of time and are irritating. For businesses, a lot of these need to be paid even if the business is not profitable (like startups!). * Healthcare is actually more expensive in the US as a % of GDP. "Europe" wins there in my personal experience. For businesses it's easier too: no shopping around for health insurance. * Social security changes a lot from country to country. Italy's system does not really seem to be working that well to me, though. * Retirement. I don't trust either the Italian or US systems. I hope yours works better. My point was mostly that it's all the small - and constant - annoyances that make life harder for a small business here in Italy. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21606293-small-businesses-fret-less-about-taxes-over-regulation-red-tape-blues http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21606293-small-b... - this kind of backs up what I said - it's not the overall level of taxation so much as the 'hassle' factor. I would suspect that things are better in the Nordic countries, and maybe the Netherlands too.

eitally 12y ago
Brazil is exactly the same!
eitally 12y ago
Brazil is exactly the same!
danieldk 12y ago
I agree that the taxation systems in Europe can be simplified and changed to benefit startups a little more. I would suspect that things are better in the Nordic countries, and maybe the Netherlands too. Definitely. I have my gripes about social security in The Netherlands and I think basic income would be better, but social security is pretty good: 75% of the last income for the first two months, 70% for the remainder of the year. After that, a single gets Euro 960.83 per month, a married couple Euro 1,372.62 per month, plus an extra amount quarterly per child (which IIRC everyone, including working people, gets). With regards to retirements, everyone gets so-called 'AOW' (850,97 per month or 2 * 586,56). Normally when you work, you also collect money in a private pension, which gets added to the AOW. AOW is directly paid by taxes, the private pension is a fund. Normally, when you work all your life, AOW + pension + home ownership gives you a royal retirement.

pjc50 12y ago

The cost is not so much the tax, but the work that must be done in order to comply with it. This ends up as a deadweight loss. Regulations also set the minimal viable size of a business. Small manufacturing businesses of all kinds are beset by the CE compliance requirements.