4 ms·

Which would deprive his wife and children more? a) Fewer expensive toys, a smaller/no TV, a small house, cheap clothes, and public school? b) A father and hus

Which would deprive his wife and children more? a) Fewer expensive toys, a smaller/no TV, a small house, cheap clothes, and public school? b) A father and husband so busy repressing his pain, so trapped in the anguish of seeing his identity drowned, that he cannot express his true love and strength to them? His family will benefit infinitely more from the joy of his liberation, and his children from the example of a father fully passionate about his life and theirs. Anything less is a disservice - and the money is utterly inconsequential in comparison.

geebee 17y ago
If the choice were between a big house and a modest house, expensive clothes and cheap clothes, private school and public school, I'd probably make some major life changes too. But here's the thing. I already live with two kids in a small 2br house in an unfashionable corner of an expensive city (San Francisco). I already buy my clothes at relatively inexpensive stores, and expensive private schools are already out of the question. My family depends heavily on my income, and while I'm not struggling and wouldn't call myself impoverished under any circumstances, there isn't a lot of room on that ladder to step down. I'm not as accomplished as the OP, but he may be in a similar financial state. Another big difference is that I don't have a difficult boss, and my commute and working hours do allow me a couple hours with my kids in the evening, along with weekends mostly free. So I'm definitely, definitely, definitely not saying he shouldn't feel this way, or suggesting that he's complaining. I'm just saying, I get it, I understand why his situation is a very difficult one.
- neilk 17y ago
  Hey, awesome if it's working for you, but "an unfashionable corner of SF" is a pretty long way from the bottom of the ladder. If you compare yourself to your peers in SF you'll never feel good about that. Too many kids who got lucky in this town walking around with zillions. What if you moved to one of the more decent parts of the East Bay? Easily cut your rent in half, or if you prefer, you could have twice the space.
neilk 17y ago
I think you're being a little bit dramatic. We're talking about computer professionals. The "pain" we might experience professionally is pretty mild. So we might only have a high paying but not totally self-actualizing job. If that squashes you down so hard you can't express your love to your kids, I'm not sure it's the job that's the problem. And going the entrepreneurial route isn't exactly a way to spend more time with your kids. I agree that escaping the rat race is a good thing overall for the family, I just disagree with the dichotomy you're presenting here.
- caffeine 17y ago
  I am utterly unhappy with my life. How is that not pain?
  - hapless 17y ago
    Your brain is pretty well set, like a thermostat. If he's in pain now, with his effete lifestyle and cushy job, poverty isn't going to improve his lot. If anything, our original poster should consider psychiatric care. This kind of seething misery isn't often fixed by dickering around your professional life.
    - scott_s 17y ago
      I disagree. Talk to grad students who both don't want to quit, but also don't see any viable paths to graduation. Being in such situations - where you feel stuck - for long periods of time can lead to depression.
  - neilk 17y ago
    I think I misread your post a little. I was thinking of it in the abstract -- is the choice between self-actualization or misery -- and that seemed too extreme. But you are right, the OP is in a lot of pain right now. And I myself have the same fears as the OP, and even taken the route that the poster wonders about, of taking time off to do some wildly impractical and creative things. It taught me a lot about myself. I don't have a family at the moment, so it's a lot easier for me. I'm not sure what the solution is, for him, but it could just be downshifting rather than a clean break. Or, maybe he thinks he needs to do something radical.

geebee 17y ago

If the choice were between a big house and a modest house, expensive clothes and cheap clothes, private school and public school, I'd probably make some major life changes too. But here's the thing. I already live with two kids in a small 2br house in an unfashionable corner of an expensive city (San Francisco). I already buy my clothes at relatively inexpensive stores, and expensive private schools are already out of the question. My family depends heavily on my income, and while I'm not struggling and wouldn't call myself impoverished under any circumstances, there isn't a lot of room on that ladder to step down. I'm not as accomplished as the OP, but he may be in a similar financial state. Another big difference is that I don't have a difficult boss, and my commute and working hours do allow me a couple hours with my kids in the evening, along with weekends mostly free. So I'm definitely, definitely, definitely not saying he shouldn't feel this way, or suggesting that he's complaining. I'm just saying, I get it, I understand why his situation is a very difficult one.

neilk 17y ago
Hey, awesome if it's working for you, but "an unfashionable corner of SF" is a pretty long way from the bottom of the ladder. If you compare yourself to your peers in SF you'll never feel good about that. Too many kids who got lucky in this town walking around with zillions. What if you moved to one of the more decent parts of the East Bay? Easily cut your rent in half, or if you prefer, you could have twice the space.

neilk 17y ago

I think you're being a little bit dramatic. We're talking about computer professionals. The "pain" we might experience professionally is pretty mild. So we might only have a high paying but not totally self-actualizing job. If that squashes you down so hard you can't express your love to your kids, I'm not sure it's the job that's the problem. And going the entrepreneurial route isn't exactly a way to spend more time with your kids. I agree that escaping the rat race is a good thing overall for the family, I just disagree with the dichotomy you're presenting here.

caffeine 17y ago
I am utterly unhappy with my life. How is that not pain?
- hapless 17y ago
  Your brain is pretty well set, like a thermostat. If he's in pain now, with his effete lifestyle and cushy job, poverty isn't going to improve his lot. If anything, our original poster should consider psychiatric care. This kind of seething misery isn't often fixed by dickering around your professional life.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    I disagree. Talk to grad students who both don't want to quit, but also don't see any viable paths to graduation. Being in such situations - where you feel stuck - for long periods of time can lead to depression.
- neilk 17y ago
  I think I misread your post a little. I was thinking of it in the abstract -- is the choice between self-actualization or misery -- and that seemed too extreme. But you are right, the OP is in a lot of pain right now. And I myself have the same fears as the OP, and even taken the route that the poster wonders about, of taking time off to do some wildly impractical and creative things. It taught me a lot about myself. I don't have a family at the moment, so it's a lot easier for me. I'm not sure what the solution is, for him, but it could just be downshifting rather than a clean break. Or, maybe he thinks he needs to do something radical.