3 ms·

And to the extent that such a statement is used to empower people to take action, I support it. Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender bin

by rabbyte 11y ago

And to the extent that such a statement is used to empower people to take action, I support it. Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due.

Frondo 11y ago
It may be that, while you're telling women to drop this aggressive narrative and play nice, they may reply by telling you that being nice hasn't worked out so well so far, so it's time to try a different approach.
- rabbyte 11y ago
  You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm asking women to play nice.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    See, what it sounds like is, you're calling it a narrative when, for women in tech, it's reality. Narratives can, of course, be changed pretty easily--"let's tell a new story"--while reality is a great deal more resistant. Conflating the two does a disservice to the people for whom it's reality, by suggesting that all they need to do is tell a new story.
    - rabbyte 11y ago
      Just because it's a narrative doesn't mean it's not also a reality. Story telling is how we make sense of collective societal changes. The presence of a narrative simply means society is trying to work out the problem. Conflating reality and narratives would be to believe that men and women are actually fighting when the reality is there are more than two genders with allies on all sides.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due. I suspect that the degree to which one believes that reinforcing the narrative described is helpful correlates pretty strongly with the degree to which one believes that the narrative described is accurate.

3 ms·

And to the extent that such a statement is used to empower people to take action, I support it. Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender bin

by rabbyte 11y ago

Frondo 11y ago
It may be that, while you're telling women to drop this aggressive narrative and play nice, they may reply by telling you that being nice hasn't worked out so well so far, so it's time to try a different approach.
- rabbyte 11y ago
  You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm asking women to play nice.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    See, what it sounds like is, you're calling it a narrative when, for women in tech, it's reality. Narratives can, of course, be changed pretty easily--"let's tell a new story"--while reality is a great deal more resistant. Conflating the two does a disservice to the people for whom it's reality, by suggesting that all they need to do is tell a new story.
    - rabbyte 11y ago
      Just because it's a narrative doesn't mean it's not also a reality. Story telling is how we make sense of collective societal changes. The presence of a narrative simply means society is trying to work out the problem. Conflating reality and narratives would be to believe that men and women are actually fighting when the reality is there are more than two genders with allies on all sides.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due. I suspect that the degree to which one believes that reinforcing the narrative described is helpful correlates pretty strongly with the degree to which one believes that the narrative described is accurate.