3 ms·

I have worked with and interviewed a ton of CS grads who couldn't tell you how the stack worked, what a linked list is, or compare the complexity of a hash look

I have worked with and interviewed a ton of CS grads who couldn't tell you how the stack worked, what a linked list is, or compare the complexity of a hash lookup vs a b-tree lookup. I'd say something like 80% of the ones I've met fall in that category. This has been pretty frustrating to me, because I am fully self taught and I know that stuff. Additionally, your comment overlooks the fact that much of what is taught in college is really ancillary to what a programmer does most days. It's nice to know, but I'd say that most CS grads learn enough to pass tests then promptly forget it. Then, they get a job, and learn a bunch of stuff that wasn't taught in college that actually is useful. Seems like a waste of time to me. Why teach people stuff that 90% of them forget? The only reason I learned this stuff is because I found it interesting, and I learned that while making money instead of going into debt taking on student loans.

mgkimsal 12y ago
hear hear... in the same boat and same experience with CS folks. The ones who 'get it' are really good, but many (most?) don't really fall in to that camp. But the same is true for self-taught folks too. There's a (growing?) divide between "cs" and "programming" and it really bugs me that people are assumed to be better at "programming" because of a CS degree. CS knowledge isn't irrelevant, but it's not always relevant to many aspects of actual day to day programming either. Perhaps it's sort of "arelevant"?
LordKano 12y ago
For financial reasons, I did two years at a community college before I went to a University and my programming courses at the community college covered far more of the underlying mechanisms of program execution than any of my university courses. Just to make sure we understood how they worked, we had to make our own linked list objects and then write functions to traverse them. It turns out that by saving money at a community college, I actually got a better education than I otherwise would have.
- bane 12y ago
  I have a similar story. I remember when my group of 7 community college grads all transferred over to the local uni. We all signed up for the Junior-level weed-out course (you could pivot at that point and switch majors to I.S. without too much headache). I think the class started with about 60 people, and ended with 11, 6 of which were my community college peers. All of my group worked up through school and graduated with top marks. It was funny, years after we had all met at CC to be standing on stage during our University graduation all receiving some kind of academic award. In general I'd say that most of my CC professors were more dedicated and accessible to teaching than my uni professors (with a couple exceptions). I remember several fond Saturday afternoons in the library where a couple of our professors would hold tutoring classes for students struggling with pointers and other hard to get concepts. I have the sense that none of my CC classes were weed-out courses, the notion was that all of the students in attendance had already been weeded-out by life in some way and were being given the golden ticket of a second chance.
Lambdanaut 12y ago
I'm in the same boat. I entered the industry while my future colleagues were entering college. At first I admit I WAS behind. I recognized this, so I taught myself Haskell immediately. That was step one. I started delving into the more theoretical aspects of computer science and as I got deeper I felt less and less insecure about my lack of a formal education. It's like you said, you retain what you love. Knowing myself, I wouldn't have loved being spoonfed computer science in a formal setting without any real context. I've retained all of the comp sci I've taught myself and I mentally review it often because it's just so damn interesting. I think the dichotomy isn't between formally and informally educated, but between excited and unexcited engineers.
Rapzid 12y ago
Surprising no? I'm shielded from it for the most part where I work by very diligent hiring managers.. The other day my manager told me that most of the people who come in for interviews don't know the stack for the heap :|

mgkimsal 12y ago

hear hear... in the same boat and same experience with CS folks. The ones who 'get it' are really good, but many (most?) don't really fall in to that camp. But the same is true for self-taught folks too. There's a (growing?) divide between "cs" and "programming" and it really bugs me that people are assumed to be better at "programming" because of a CS degree. CS knowledge isn't irrelevant, but it's not always relevant to many aspects of actual day to day programming either. Perhaps it's sort of "arelevant"?

LordKano 12y ago

For financial reasons, I did two years at a community college before I went to a University and my programming courses at the community college covered far more of the underlying mechanisms of program execution than any of my university courses. Just to make sure we understood how they worked, we had to make our own linked list objects and then write functions to traverse them. It turns out that by saving money at a community college, I actually got a better education than I otherwise would have.

bane 12y ago
I have a similar story. I remember when my group of 7 community college grads all transferred over to the local uni. We all signed up for the Junior-level weed-out course (you could pivot at that point and switch majors to I.S. without too much headache). I think the class started with about 60 people, and ended with 11, 6 of which were my community college peers. All of my group worked up through school and graduated with top marks. It was funny, years after we had all met at CC to be standing on stage during our University graduation all receiving some kind of academic award. In general I'd say that most of my CC professors were more dedicated and accessible to teaching than my uni professors (with a couple exceptions). I remember several fond Saturday afternoons in the library where a couple of our professors would hold tutoring classes for students struggling with pointers and other hard to get concepts. I have the sense that none of my CC classes were weed-out courses, the notion was that all of the students in attendance had already been weeded-out by life in some way and were being given the golden ticket of a second chance.

Lambdanaut 12y ago

I'm in the same boat. I entered the industry while my future colleagues were entering college. At first I admit I WAS behind. I recognized this, so I taught myself Haskell immediately. That was step one. I started delving into the more theoretical aspects of computer science and as I got deeper I felt less and less insecure about my lack of a formal education. It's like you said, you retain what you love. Knowing myself, I wouldn't have loved being spoonfed computer science in a formal setting without any real context. I've retained all of the comp sci I've taught myself and I mentally review it often because it's just so damn interesting. I think the dichotomy isn't between formally and informally educated, but between excited and unexcited engineers.

Rapzid 12y ago

Surprising no? I'm shielded from it for the most part where I work by very diligent hiring managers.. The other day my manager told me that most of the people who come in for interviews don't know the stack for the heap :|