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> Are you trying to somehow imply everyone is racist? Are you further implying that everyone is sexist? Yes and yes. Much of our context for judging people com

by sinak 12y ago

> Are you trying to somehow imply everyone is racist? Are you further implying that everyone is sexist? Yes and yes. Much of our context for judging people comes from society, and society is both sexist and racist. Numerous studies have shown that even people who identify as being non-racist will shoot a black person more quickly, dismiss a resume if it contains a black-sounding name, etc: More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opinion/nicholas-kristof-is-everyone-a-little-bit-racist.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opinion/nicholas-kristof-i... The same applies to sexism. You can Google your way to plenty of similar studies. > I'm curious, who (in the US anyways) doesn't have that right. At this point I feel like I can get sued for calling a stop sign red. It's getting a little absurd. It's true that people (mostly) have the right to free speech in the US. But there are two ways to prevent people from expressing their views: you can literally disallow them from saying something, or you can "silence" them by making them feel uncomfortable for having spoken at all. I'm talking about the latter.

cbd1984 12y ago
If everyone is sexist, than nobody can call anyone else sexist, because nobody is in a position to do so unhypocritically. Ditto racism. > you can "silence" them by making them feel uncomfortable for having spoken at all. I'm talking about the latter. Which is part of what happens when someone is called racist or sexist.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  If everyone is sexist, than nobody can call anyone else sexist, because nobody is in a position to do so unhypocritically. This is incorrect. There is no requirement to be free of some fault in order to be able identify that fault in others.
  - cbd1984 12y ago
    There is if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
    - EliRivers 12y ago
      This is incorrect. For example, a criminal in a court proceeding might give evidence against another criminal, involved in the same crime. It is common for the criminal giving such evidence to be taken seriously.
irishcoffee 12y ago
I didn't ask about society. Everyone, is every single individual racist and/or sexist? > Numerous studies have shown that even people who identify as being non-racist will shoot a black person more quickly, dismiss a resume if it contains a black-sounding name, etc... Did those studies talk to every single person in the US? Or are you only concerned about white people being racist towards black people? That's how you're coming across, just so you know. You can't acknowledge that you think 'everyone' is racist and then pivot back to society. You've just blanket accused every single person of being racist, and sexist. Are black women racist and sexist? Middle-eastern women? Its easy to stand on a soapbox and quote a study. It does not seem as though you've run this line of thinking to its conclusion, you stopped in the middle. > It's true that people (mostly) have the right to free speech in the US. But there are two ways to prevent people from expressing their views: you can literally disallow them from saying something, or you can "silence" them by making them feel uncomfortable for having spoken at all. I'm talking about the latter. Mostly have the right to free speech? Can you elaborate about that? I'm not sure if you're aware of how controversial the issue of 'free speech' has become. [0] Once again, its easy to soapbox and pick the parts you agree with. We must not live in the same US (or perhaps you don't) if you think people are shamed into not talking out against racism and sexism. They're both wrong, and, compared to even 20 years ago, the US is making forward progress, leaps and bounds of forward progress. Then people come along and say things like you did, as if there isn't change. It literally takes generations to wipe out hatred in the manner you're concerned about. Making blanket statements about everyone being a horrible, shitty person on the internet doesn't speed things up, and makes you look silly. [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+Speech http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+Spe...
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Racism/sexism aren't binary states but continuous ones. And, sure, everyone probably had non-zero degrees of both racism and sexism. And, yes, that includes black and middle-eastern women -- not uniquely so, but in the same way as it includes people of every race and sex. And, yes, people of races that are generally viewed poorly by the dominant sectors of the society they live in often have internalized some of the dominant society's racist views against their own race. I'm not sure by you think acknowledging that is problematic.

by sinak 12y ago

cbd1984 12y ago

If everyone is sexist, than nobody can call anyone else sexist, because nobody is in a position to do so unhypocritically. Ditto racism. > you can "silence" them by making them feel uncomfortable for having spoken at all. I'm talking about the latter. Which is part of what happens when someone is called racist or sexist.

EliRivers 12y ago
If everyone is sexist, than nobody can call anyone else sexist, because nobody is in a position to do so unhypocritically. This is incorrect. There is no requirement to be free of some fault in order to be able identify that fault in others.
- cbd1984 12y ago
  There is if you expect anyone to take you seriously.
  - EliRivers 12y ago
    This is incorrect. For example, a criminal in a court proceeding might give evidence against another criminal, involved in the same crime. It is common for the criminal giving such evidence to be taken seriously.

irishcoffee 12y ago

I didn't ask about society. Everyone, is every single individual racist and/or sexist? > Numerous studies have shown that even people who identify as being non-racist will shoot a black person more quickly, dismiss a resume if it contains a black-sounding name, etc... Did those studies talk to every single person in the US? Or are you only concerned about white people being racist towards black people? That's how you're coming across, just so you know. You can't acknowledge that you think 'everyone' is racist and then pivot back to society. You've just blanket accused every single person of being racist, and sexist. Are black women racist and sexist? Middle-eastern women? Its easy to stand on a soapbox and quote a study. It does not seem as though you've run this line of thinking to its conclusion, you stopped in the middle. > It's true that people (mostly) have the right to free speech in the US. But there are two ways to prevent people from expressing their views: you can literally disallow them from saying something, or you can "silence" them by making them feel uncomfortable for having spoken at all. I'm talking about the latter. Mostly have the right to free speech? Can you elaborate about that? I'm not sure if you're aware of how controversial the issue of 'free speech' has become. [0] Once again, its easy to soapbox and pick the parts you agree with. We must not live in the same US (or perhaps you don't) if you think people are shamed into not talking out against racism and sexism. They're both wrong, and, compared to even 20 years ago, the US is making forward progress, leaps and bounds of forward progress. Then people come along and say things like you did, as if there isn't change. It literally takes generations to wipe out hatred in the manner you're concerned about. Making blanket statements about everyone being a horrible, shitty person on the internet doesn't speed things up, and makes you look silly. [0] http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+Speech http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+Spe...

dragonwriter 12y ago
Racism/sexism aren't binary states but continuous ones. And, sure, everyone probably had non-zero degrees of both racism and sexism. And, yes, that includes black and middle-eastern women -- not uniquely so, but in the same way as it includes people of every race and sex. And, yes, people of races that are generally viewed poorly by the dominant sectors of the society they live in often have internalized some of the dominant society's racist views against their own race. I'm not sure by you think acknowledging that is problematic.