4 ms·

Lots of anger, name calling, blaming, and posturing directed at nobody in particular with no discernible next steps toward resolution. Nothing good will come fr

by rabbyte 11y ago

Lots of anger, name calling, blaming, and posturing directed at nobody in particular with no discernible next steps toward resolution. Nothing good will come from this. There's no need to wage war, pick out enemies, and blast people toward a more fair world. If you try to pick a fight you'll get one because that's definitely something we can all do well.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> with no discernible next steps toward resolution. The next steps (expressed as fact statements rather than calls to action) are quite explicit in the last paragraph. > There's no need to wage war, pick out enemies, and blast people toward a more fair world. I don't see any war-waging, just an explanation for the motivations for a well-identified new strategy.
- rabbyte 11y ago
  Quite explicit? Let me see if I can recount those steps then: follow brave women, talk, organize, share stories about creeps and cowards, incorporate, fundraise, invest, and stop giving fucks. Great plan maybe if we have time we can include memes.
Frondo 11y ago
I'd guess that, in reply to your statement "if you try to pick a fight...", a woman in tech might reasonably reply, the fight started years ago, women are just now starting to stand up for themselves.
- rabbyte 11y ago
  And to the extent that such a statement is used to empower people to take action, I support it. Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    It may be that, while you're telling women to drop this aggressive narrative and play nice, they may reply by telling you that being nice hasn't worked out so well so far, so it's time to try a different approach.
    - rabbyte 11y ago
      You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm asking women to play nice.
      - Frondo 11y ago
        See, what it sounds like is, you're calling it a narrative when, for women in tech, it's reality. Narratives can, of course, be changed pretty easily--"let's tell a new story"--while reality is a great deal more resistant. Conflating the two does a disservice to the people for whom it's reality, by suggesting that all they need to do is tell a new story.
        rabbyte 11y ago
        Just because it's a narrative doesn't mean it's not also a reality. Story telling is how we make sense of collective societal changes. The presence of a narrative simply means society is trying to work out the problem. Conflating reality and narratives would be to believe that men and women are actually fighting when the reality is there are more than two genders with allies on all sides.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due. I suspect that the degree to which one believes that reinforcing the narrative described is helpful correlates pretty strongly with the degree to which one believes that the narrative described is accurate.

by rabbyte 11y ago

dragonwriter 11y ago

> with no discernible next steps toward resolution. The next steps (expressed as fact statements rather than calls to action) are quite explicit in the last paragraph. > There's no need to wage war, pick out enemies, and blast people toward a more fair world. I don't see any war-waging, just an explanation for the motivations for a well-identified new strategy.

rabbyte 11y ago
Quite explicit? Let me see if I can recount those steps then: follow brave women, talk, organize, share stories about creeps and cowards, incorporate, fundraise, invest, and stop giving fucks. Great plan maybe if we have time we can include memes.

Frondo 11y ago

I'd guess that, in reply to your statement "if you try to pick a fight...", a woman in tech might reasonably reply, the fight started years ago, women are just now starting to stand up for themselves.

rabbyte 11y ago
And to the extent that such a statement is used to empower people to take action, I support it. Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due.
- Frondo 11y ago
  It may be that, while you're telling women to drop this aggressive narrative and play nice, they may reply by telling you that being nice hasn't worked out so well so far, so it's time to try a different approach.
  - rabbyte 11y ago
    You're misunderstanding me if you think I'm asking women to play nice.
    - Frondo 11y ago
      See, what it sounds like is, you're calling it a narrative when, for women in tech, it's reality. Narratives can, of course, be changed pretty easily--"let's tell a new story"--while reality is a great deal more resistant. Conflating the two does a disservice to the people for whom it's reality, by suggesting that all they need to do is tell a new story.
      - rabbyte 11y ago
        Just because it's a narrative doesn't mean it's not also a reality. Story telling is how we make sense of collective societal changes. The presence of a narrative simply means society is trying to work out the problem. Conflating reality and narratives would be to believe that men and women are actually fighting when the reality is there are more than two genders with allies on all sides.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Still, imho, it's not helpful to further entrench the gender binary with a narrative about men keeping women from their potential and women having to fend for themselves to get what their due. I suspect that the degree to which one believes that reinforcing the narrative described is helpful correlates pretty strongly with the degree to which one believes that the narrative described is accurate.