3 ms·

Or maybe the onus should be on the male crowd to take action?

by yuvadam 12y ago

notacoward 12y ago
Perhaps it should, but every bit of ally advice I've seen is that they should not try to define what that action should be. That's taking leadership away from the women themselves - "white knight" behavior of the worst sort. I'm not saying everyone feels that way, and in fact I have misgivings about it myself, but that seems to be the prevailing view. Instead of trying to guess what women you don't even know need or want, let them explain it to you. I don't get the impression that whoever wrote the OP is shy. If there's a plan, we'll hear about it and then we (men) can perhaps help to implement it ... or not, depending on what that plan is. I very much doubt this was meant as an opportunity for men to fill in the blanks.
ncza 12y ago
Well, hysteric anger like this makes me feel both annoyed and accused for things I have had no influence on. Not the greatest way to make me actively support it. In fact it makes me feel negatively.
- hypatiadotca 12y ago
  Just in case you weren't aware, "hysterical" is a word that has a heavy sexist history: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4298060.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4... You do have influence on the subtle sexism that creeps into your language, like they word "hysteric" just did. Now you know! Not using it again is a specific thing you can do to make the world a better place. I suspect that the author of the manifesto felt negatively about her experiences as well. Perhaps you should take those negative feelings and go do something productive, like donate money to a women-in-tech charity, or help a female friend who's unhappy in her career find a new job at a healthier company.
  - ncza 12y ago
    I won't let you police what words I use, I had no idea of the history (ESL). If there is a objective source I might reconsider. You missed my point about the negativity. It makes me not wanting to do anything, that's the problem.
- Frondo 12y ago
  I would like to ask you: why? Why does this make you feel annoyed and accused? Do you take the time to check your behaviors, talk to women (with humility), ask their stories, and see if you have done the wrong things (even accidentally)? When I read something like this, it doesn't make me feel accused at all. It makes me feel sympathetic to anyone who'd be compelled to write this. It also makes me think, "I'm glad I have already gotten over my defensive posturing, because there was a time when I was more ignorant about others' struggles, and would have taken offense at this."

Or maybe the onus should be on the male crowd to take action?

by yuvadam 12y ago

Or maybe the onus should be on the male crowd to take action?

Perhaps it should, but every bit of ally advice I've seen is that they should not try to define what that action should be. That's taking leadership away from the women themselves - "white knight" behavior of the worst sort. I'm not saying everyone feels that way, and in fact I have misgivings about it myself, but that seems to be the prevailing view. Instead of trying to guess what women you don't even know need or want, let them explain it to you. I don't get the impression that whoever wrote the OP is shy. If there's a plan, we'll hear about it and then we (men) can perhaps help to implement it ... or not, depending on what that plan is. I very much doubt this was meant as an opportunity for men to fill in the blanks.

ncza 12y ago

Well, hysteric anger like this makes me feel both annoyed and accused for things I have had no influence on. Not the greatest way to make me actively support it. In fact it makes me feel negatively.

hypatiadotca 12y ago
Just in case you weren't aware, "hysterical" is a word that has a heavy sexist history: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4298060.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4... You do have influence on the subtle sexism that creeps into your language, like they word "hysteric" just did. Now you know! Not using it again is a specific thing you can do to make the world a better place. I suspect that the author of the manifesto felt negatively about her experiences as well. Perhaps you should take those negative feelings and go do something productive, like donate money to a women-in-tech charity, or help a female friend who's unhappy in her career find a new job at a healthier company.
- ncza 12y ago
  I won't let you police what words I use, I had no idea of the history (ESL). If there is a objective source I might reconsider. You missed my point about the negativity. It makes me not wanting to do anything, that's the problem.
Frondo 12y ago
I would like to ask you: why? Why does this make you feel annoyed and accused? Do you take the time to check your behaviors, talk to women (with humility), ask their stories, and see if you have done the wrong things (even accidentally)? When I read something like this, it doesn't make me feel accused at all. It makes me feel sympathetic to anyone who'd be compelled to write this. It also makes me think, "I'm glad I have already gotten over my defensive posturing, because there was a time when I was more ignorant about others' struggles, and would have taken offense at this."