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This is trending all day now, and seems to be getting killed on HN. Curious why mods feel the need to do that.

by yuvadam 12y ago

beering 12y ago
Just glancing through the content, it has a much greater than normal chance of getting flagged by readers. So all those flags could be killing it. Edit: I am not certain this is how HN actually works, so it's just a guess.
- yuvadam 12y ago
  Could be. Either way, kind of proves the point.
bshimmin 12y ago
Perhaps because, beyond a Twitter hashtag and a fairly inexplicable emoticon, it doesn't add anything new or interesting to (what usually amounts to) a rather prickly debate.
- notacoward 12y ago
  Agreed. Somebody's mad, perhaps justifiably so, but there's no clear plan of action here. I'm not saying it's a bad plan. I'm saying it's no plan, and thus nothing to discuss. Maybe when more details come out about what the tableflippers are actually going to do, that will be newsworthy.
  - yuvadam 12y ago
    Or maybe the onus should be on the male crowd to take action?
    - notacoward 12y ago
      Perhaps it should, but every bit of ally advice I've seen is that they should not try to define what that action should be. That's taking leadership away from the women themselves - "white knight" behavior of the worst sort. I'm not saying everyone feels that way, and in fact I have misgivings about it myself, but that seems to be the prevailing view. Instead of trying to guess what women you don't even know need or want, let them explain it to you. I don't get the impression that whoever wrote the OP is shy. If there's a plan, we'll hear about it and then we (men) can perhaps help to implement it ... or not, depending on what that plan is. I very much doubt this was meant as an opportunity for men to fill in the blanks.
    - ncza 12y ago
      Well, hysteric anger like this makes me feel both annoyed and accused for things I have had no influence on. Not the greatest way to make me actively support it. In fact it makes me feel negatively.
      - hypatiadotca 12y ago
        Just in case you weren't aware, "hysterical" is a word that has a heavy sexist history: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4298060.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4... You do have influence on the subtle sexism that creeps into your language, like they word "hysteric" just did. Now you know! Not using it again is a specific thing you can do to make the world a better place. I suspect that the author of the manifesto felt negatively about her experiences as well. Perhaps you should take those negative feelings and go do something productive, like donate money to a women-in-tech charity, or help a female friend who's unhappy in her career find a new job at a healthier company.
        ncza 12y ago
        I won't let you police what words I use, I had no idea of the history (ESL). If there is a objective source I might reconsider. You missed my point about the negativity. It makes me not wanting to do anything, that's the problem.
      - Frondo 12y ago
        I would like to ask you: why? Why does this make you feel annoyed and accused? Do you take the time to check your behaviors, talk to women (with humility), ask their stories, and see if you have done the wrong things (even accidentally)? When I read something like this, it doesn't make me feel accused at all. It makes me feel sympathetic to anyone who'd be compelled to write this. It also makes me think, "I'm glad I have already gotten over my defensive posturing, because there was a time when I was more ignorant about others' struggles, and would have taken offense at this."
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > there's no clear plan of action here. The clear plan of action is in the last sentence, most critically this sentence: "We're incorporating and fundraising and angel investing in other womens' companies." It's not a detailed plan, of course, but its a manifesto, not a 5-year-plan.
    - notacoward 12y ago
      Fair enough, but it still leaves little to discuss. When what appears to be a new angel fund actually gets created, and can explain how they'll do all this without falling afoul of the very same anti-discrimination laws that everyone else must live by, then I hope that will be enough to hang a real discussion on. Until then, "who's the whitest knight" seems to be about it.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > Fair enough, but it still leaves little to discuss. Its a manifesto, its not really asking for a discussion, except among people -- from the face of it, women, specifically -- that are interested in participating. In any case, if there's nothing to discuss, you don't need to discuss it.
        notacoward 12y ago
        So you're saying it's just here as an announcement, not for anyone to discuss? That generally seems to be a privilege limited to YC companies (or YC itself). Everything else gets discussed, for all the reasons that discussion is considered beneficial. It's what the platform was written to facilitate. But hey, if it's just an announcement then we're done. I hope it reaches its intended audience, and congratulate you on that shiny armor.
        dragonwriter 12y ago
        > So you're saying it's just here as an announcement, not for anyone to discuss? Its here because someone posted it here; I'm saying that the page itself isn't calling for a discussion, its identifying complaints motivating action and a high-level description of the action the author(s) intend to undertake to address the situation identified in the complaints (similar to, e.g., the US Declaration of Independence.) That it is not calling for a discussion doesn't mean that there is nothing in it to discuss, though it does mean that it is silly to criticize it for your perception that there is nothing in it to discuss. If you find nothing in it to discuss, you could simply not discuss it.
- cmiles74 12y ago
  I've seen this emoticon before, it's someone flipping a table. Here's a Clojure macro to let you flip and catch tables: https://github.com/jstepien/flip https://github.com/jstepien/flip
dang 12y ago
The mods haven't touched these posts, other than to unkill https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9369299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9369299 (and move one comment from there to here). When you see "[flagged]" on a post it means either that users flagged it or that it was moderated automatically by software (usually because of restrictions on noob accounts). We review and unflag the latter category of posts when they aren't spam or trolling. Soon everyone will be able to participate in the unflagging, but that isn't rolled out yet.

This is trending all day now, and seems to be getting killed on HN. Curious why mods feel the need to do that.

by yuvadam 12y ago

This is trending all day now, and seems to be getting killed on HN. Curious why mods feel the need to do that.

Just glancing through the content, it has a much greater than normal chance of getting flagged by readers. So all those flags could be killing it. Edit: I am not certain this is how HN actually works, so it's just a guess.

yuvadam 12y ago
Could be. Either way, kind of proves the point.

bshimmin 12y ago

Perhaps because, beyond a Twitter hashtag and a fairly inexplicable emoticon, it doesn't add anything new or interesting to (what usually amounts to) a rather prickly debate.

notacoward 12y ago
Agreed. Somebody's mad, perhaps justifiably so, but there's no clear plan of action here. I'm not saying it's a bad plan. I'm saying it's no plan, and thus nothing to discuss. Maybe when more details come out about what the tableflippers are actually going to do, that will be newsworthy.
- yuvadam 12y ago
  Or maybe the onus should be on the male crowd to take action?
  - notacoward 12y ago
    Perhaps it should, but every bit of ally advice I've seen is that they should not try to define what that action should be. That's taking leadership away from the women themselves - "white knight" behavior of the worst sort. I'm not saying everyone feels that way, and in fact I have misgivings about it myself, but that seems to be the prevailing view. Instead of trying to guess what women you don't even know need or want, let them explain it to you. I don't get the impression that whoever wrote the OP is shy. If there's a plan, we'll hear about it and then we (men) can perhaps help to implement it ... or not, depending on what that plan is. I very much doubt this was meant as an opportunity for men to fill in the blanks.
  - ncza 12y ago
    Well, hysteric anger like this makes me feel both annoyed and accused for things I have had no influence on. Not the greatest way to make me actively support it. In fact it makes me feel negatively.
    - hypatiadotca 12y ago
      Just in case you weren't aware, "hysterical" is a word that has a heavy sexist history: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4298060.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/female-hysteria_n_4... You do have influence on the subtle sexism that creeps into your language, like they word "hysteric" just did. Now you know! Not using it again is a specific thing you can do to make the world a better place. I suspect that the author of the manifesto felt negatively about her experiences as well. Perhaps you should take those negative feelings and go do something productive, like donate money to a women-in-tech charity, or help a female friend who's unhappy in her career find a new job at a healthier company.
      - ncza 12y ago
        I won't let you police what words I use, I had no idea of the history (ESL). If there is a objective source I might reconsider. You missed my point about the negativity. It makes me not wanting to do anything, that's the problem.
    - Frondo 12y ago
      I would like to ask you: why? Why does this make you feel annoyed and accused? Do you take the time to check your behaviors, talk to women (with humility), ask their stories, and see if you have done the wrong things (even accidentally)? When I read something like this, it doesn't make me feel accused at all. It makes me feel sympathetic to anyone who'd be compelled to write this. It also makes me think, "I'm glad I have already gotten over my defensive posturing, because there was a time when I was more ignorant about others' struggles, and would have taken offense at this."
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > there's no clear plan of action here. The clear plan of action is in the last sentence, most critically this sentence: "We're incorporating and fundraising and angel investing in other womens' companies." It's not a detailed plan, of course, but its a manifesto, not a 5-year-plan.
  - notacoward 12y ago
    Fair enough, but it still leaves little to discuss. When what appears to be a new angel fund actually gets created, and can explain how they'll do all this without falling afoul of the very same anti-discrimination laws that everyone else must live by, then I hope that will be enough to hang a real discussion on. Until then, "who's the whitest knight" seems to be about it.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Fair enough, but it still leaves little to discuss. Its a manifesto, its not really asking for a discussion, except among people -- from the face of it, women, specifically -- that are interested in participating. In any case, if there's nothing to discuss, you don't need to discuss it.
      - notacoward 12y ago
        So you're saying it's just here as an announcement, not for anyone to discuss? That generally seems to be a privilege limited to YC companies (or YC itself). Everything else gets discussed, for all the reasons that discussion is considered beneficial. It's what the platform was written to facilitate. But hey, if it's just an announcement then we're done. I hope it reaches its intended audience, and congratulate you on that shiny armor.
        dragonwriter 12y ago
        > So you're saying it's just here as an announcement, not for anyone to discuss? Its here because someone posted it here; I'm saying that the page itself isn't calling for a discussion, its identifying complaints motivating action and a high-level description of the action the author(s) intend to undertake to address the situation identified in the complaints (similar to, e.g., the US Declaration of Independence.) That it is not calling for a discussion doesn't mean that there is nothing in it to discuss, though it does mean that it is silly to criticize it for your perception that there is nothing in it to discuss. If you find nothing in it to discuss, you could simply not discuss it.
cmiles74 12y ago
I've seen this emoticon before, it's someone flipping a table. Here's a Clojure macro to let you flip and catch tables: https://github.com/jstepien/flip https://github.com/jstepien/flip

dang 12y ago

The mods haven't touched these posts, other than to unkill https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9369299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9369299 (and move one comment from there to here). When you see "[flagged]" on a post it means either that users flagged it or that it was moderated automatically by software (usually because of restrictions on noob accounts). We review and unflag the latter category of posts when they aren't spam or trolling. Soon everyone will be able to participate in the unflagging, but that isn't rolled out yet.