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Ever since reading that article about how dangerous it is to criticize Apple, and how authors always start out by flying their Apple cred... man I notice it all

by jff 12y ago

Ever since reading that article about how dangerous it is to criticize Apple, and how authors always start out by flying their Apple cred... man I notice it all the time in any article that has to say something critical.

eridius 12y ago
That article claiming it's dangerous to criticize Apple was complete bullshit, but it did serve to highlight how anyone writing anti-Apple posts loves to try and trot out their credentials as an Apple user as if that lends authority to whatever they're about to write.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  > as if that lends authority to whatever they're about to write I think it does. Apple has a lot of True Believers and there are also a lot of people who have never used Apple products but take every opportunity to bash them. When I see a critical post written by someone who uses and likes Apple products, I consider the points made more carefully than a positive post by a brainwashee or a negative post by someone with an axe to grind.
  - eridius 12y ago
    It's really hard to take anyone seriously when they accuse Apple users of being "believers" or being "brainwash[ed]". Do you honestly believe that there's a large chunk of Apple customers out there (some even imply a majority of them) that only use Apple products out of some religious fervor or slavish devotion to the memory of Steve Jobs or whatever other justification you want to use? If anything, all of the Apple users that I know (and I know a lot) are more prone to be critical of Apple products than anyone I know is of any other company's products. (edit: That's actually a serious question. I genuinely don't understand why people try to make this argument)
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      Can you point out where I suggested that all users of Apple products are brainwashed? One look at the Macrumors forum shows you that these people exist in some number (just like one look at a guitar forum shows you that Gibson has some believers). I work with one person who is absolutely insufferable with Apple evangelization. I didn't make the argument you thought I did, and while your weaving skills are admirable, I don't really need any strawmen.
      - eridius 12y ago
        > Can you point out where I suggested that all users of Apple products are brainwashed? I never accused you of saying all users of Apple products are brainwashed. Misrepresenting my comment isn't a very effective strategy when my comment is right there for everyone to read. And you very specifically used the term "brainwashee" in the context of Apple users, so yes you did in fact accuse some users of Apple products of being brainwashed. > I didn't make the argument you thought I did You said the Apple customer base has "a lot of True Believers" and having people you think are "brainwash[ed]". That's not a description I'd expect to see anyone use for any company other than Apple (even if you personally think there are customers of other companies that exhibit the same traits, you almost certainly wouldn't think to apply those specific labels). Which is why I asked my question. Why do you think those labels are appropriate, and what portion of Apple's customer base do you think they apply to? If you think that this description is only appropriate for a very small number of people, why even bring it up? If you think it applies to a large number of people, what justification do you have for describing Apple's user base as if it were a cult and do you really think that this does anything other than make anyone reading your comment dismiss it out of hand (which is the same general reaction to a comment including the word "fanboy"). > I don't really need any straw men. Do you actually know what a straw man argument is, or are you just using the term to try and shut down conversation?
        joshuapants 12y ago
        >I never accused you of saying all users of Apple products > when they accuse Apple users of I did not accuse Apple users in general, just a set of them. > even if you personally think there are customers of other companies that exhibit the same traits, you almost certainly wouldn't think to apply those specific labels Yes, I would, and I do. > Why do you think those labels are appropriate Because they accurately describe the groups I apply them to. > what portion of Apple's customer base do you think they apply to? A significant portion of their vocal user base. > If you think that this description is only appropriate for a very small number of people, why even bring it up? Because they are the loudest ones and they lower the signal-to-noise ratio considerably. Why do you care that I bring it up? > Do you actually know what a straw man argument is Yes, you are deliberately misrepresenting my argument so you can appear to have successfully attacked it. And now you are trying to belittle my intelligence by accusing me of not knowing what a strawman is and that I'm attempting to "shut down conversation" (which is laughable, here in a public comments thread, where I have no ability to shut down anything). Given your defensiveness, intellectual dishonesty, and inability to read a dissenting opinion without exploding, I have to imagine that you are one of the True Believers. edit: just so we're clear, that last line was sarcastic, so please don't have a conniption

by jff 12y ago

eridius 12y ago

That article claiming it's dangerous to criticize Apple was complete bullshit, but it did serve to highlight how anyone writing anti-Apple posts loves to try and trot out their credentials as an Apple user as if that lends authority to whatever they're about to write.

joshuapants 12y ago
> as if that lends authority to whatever they're about to write I think it does. Apple has a lot of True Believers and there are also a lot of people who have never used Apple products but take every opportunity to bash them. When I see a critical post written by someone who uses and likes Apple products, I consider the points made more carefully than a positive post by a brainwashee or a negative post by someone with an axe to grind.
- eridius 12y ago
  It's really hard to take anyone seriously when they accuse Apple users of being "believers" or being "brainwash[ed]". Do you honestly believe that there's a large chunk of Apple customers out there (some even imply a majority of them) that only use Apple products out of some religious fervor or slavish devotion to the memory of Steve Jobs or whatever other justification you want to use? If anything, all of the Apple users that I know (and I know a lot) are more prone to be critical of Apple products than anyone I know is of any other company's products. (edit: That's actually a serious question. I genuinely don't understand why people try to make this argument)
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    Can you point out where I suggested that all users of Apple products are brainwashed? One look at the Macrumors forum shows you that these people exist in some number (just like one look at a guitar forum shows you that Gibson has some believers). I work with one person who is absolutely insufferable with Apple evangelization. I didn't make the argument you thought I did, and while your weaving skills are admirable, I don't really need any strawmen.
    - eridius 12y ago
      > Can you point out where I suggested that all users of Apple products are brainwashed? I never accused you of saying all users of Apple products are brainwashed. Misrepresenting my comment isn't a very effective strategy when my comment is right there for everyone to read. And you very specifically used the term "brainwashee" in the context of Apple users, so yes you did in fact accuse some users of Apple products of being brainwashed. > I didn't make the argument you thought I did You said the Apple customer base has "a lot of True Believers" and having people you think are "brainwash[ed]". That's not a description I'd expect to see anyone use for any company other than Apple (even if you personally think there are customers of other companies that exhibit the same traits, you almost certainly wouldn't think to apply those specific labels). Which is why I asked my question. Why do you think those labels are appropriate, and what portion of Apple's customer base do you think they apply to? If you think that this description is only appropriate for a very small number of people, why even bring it up? If you think it applies to a large number of people, what justification do you have for describing Apple's user base as if it were a cult and do you really think that this does anything other than make anyone reading your comment dismiss it out of hand (which is the same general reaction to a comment including the word "fanboy"). > I don't really need any straw men. Do you actually know what a straw man argument is, or are you just using the term to try and shut down conversation?
      - joshuapants 12y ago
        >I never accused you of saying all users of Apple products > when they accuse Apple users of I did not accuse Apple users in general, just a set of them. > even if you personally think there are customers of other companies that exhibit the same traits, you almost certainly wouldn't think to apply those specific labels Yes, I would, and I do. > Why do you think those labels are appropriate Because they accurately describe the groups I apply them to. > what portion of Apple's customer base do you think they apply to? A significant portion of their vocal user base. > If you think that this description is only appropriate for a very small number of people, why even bring it up? Because they are the loudest ones and they lower the signal-to-noise ratio considerably. Why do you care that I bring it up? > Do you actually know what a straw man argument is Yes, you are deliberately misrepresenting my argument so you can appear to have successfully attacked it. And now you are trying to belittle my intelligence by accusing me of not knowing what a strawman is and that I'm attempting to "shut down conversation" (which is laughable, here in a public comments thread, where I have no ability to shut down anything). Given your defensiveness, intellectual dishonesty, and inability to read a dissenting opinion without exploding, I have to imagine that you are one of the True Believers. edit: just so we're clear, that last line was sarcastic, so please don't have a conniption