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I find the irony of a developer working for one of the biggest walled gardens on the internet complaining about walls around someone else's garden to be very de

by evgen 17y ago

I find the irony of a developer working for one of the biggest walled gardens on the internet complaining about walls around someone else's garden to be very deep into the pot/kettle/black territory...

madair 17y ago
Ummm, Facebook's wall is quite a bit less ominous than Apple's. You may want to return that irony to the store, they cheated you and watered it down.
- naz 17y ago
  Collecting intimate personal details and selling it to advertisers is less ominous than screening apps to ensure quality?
  - madair 17y ago
    I thought they shut down that program recently?
    - kyro 17y ago
      You're talking about Beacon, which would gather data about what you're doing on other sites.
  - unalone 17y ago
    From a developer standpoint, immensely so.
    - indranil 17y ago
      huh!? O_o
      - unalone 17y ago
        What matters here isn't "Are Apple and Facebook soulless and oppressive corporations?" (I'd argue no, lots of people would argue yes; either way it's not important.) What matters is how each is treating its developers. Facebook is open to developers and their publications; Apple isn't.
  - madair 17y ago
    For that the key is the privacy controls. We can argue about whether Facebook's privacy controls are good enough, whether they are selling our data, and so on. But that's got nothing to do with the Apple walled-garden comparison. I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple. And I will be so very very surprised if Facebook censors a dictionary app.
    - zmimon 17y ago
      > I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple If FB doesn't like your app they'll have it down in a jiffy too. It's not nearly so clear cut as you make out. Their review process is just reactive instead of front-loaded.
- evgen 17y ago
  The walls are still there. Facebook is still a roach motel for data and now they are going to be spanking platform developers whose apps are proving to be detrimental to Facebook's reputation and user experience. Same tune, different band.
  - madair 17y ago
    What is implied by a roach motel for data? I hate walled gardens. But I really don't think they are objectively the same tune different band. You're saying they will be spanking platform devs who's apps prove detrimental...well that's pretty different from Apple. Hugely different. Hmmm, hardly in the same class. [edited to move part to a different parent comment]
    - ja30278 17y ago
      It's a reference to the old roach motel slogan: "Roaches check in, but they can't check out". In this case, referring to the fact that Facebook doesn't exactly go out of their way to provide you with the ability to 'take your data and leave'. Can you get an easy dump of all of your comments? Your friends' contact info? Your photos?
      - madair 17y ago
        Cool metaphor, I'll have to remember that.
      - u238 17y ago
        Yes, through the API.
  - ivankirigin 17y ago
    Almost everything in facebook is openly accessible via API if you've granted permissions to an applications to do so. We've seen services like Tweetdeck and Seesmic and Brizzly act like portals to the data. Things get complicated with friends' data of course. Facebook has a collection of your friends phone numbers, and data access permissions and storage rights get complicated.
natrius 17y ago
Describe a social network with user-friendly privacy controls that doesn't fall under your definition of "walled garden".
- tedunangst 17y ago
  One with a link that says "Click here to download all your data."
  - nailer 17y ago
    I know Facebook API and could make that without too much effort. Do you think the demand is there? What format would users want such data in?
    - jotto 17y ago
      they're getting closer but they're not there yet. they have an API method in beta that allows you to pull the last 50 posts of a user's mini-feed, and then you can grab comments for each post in the mini feed, but that's not going to get you all user contributions.
akamaka 17y ago
Agreed. It rings even more hollow given the recent revelation about widespread scams in Facebook apps. If his company was doing as good a job at protecting users as Apple had, I'd be more inclined to listen to him. The position he's taken is a purely self-interested one, asking for more developer freedom without even acknowledging the difficult challenge Apple faces, and without admitting that maybe his company could learn something from them.
davidw 17y ago
Recall that you pay nothing to use facebook, whereas with an iPhone, something that you physically own, you're not even really allowed to do as you please with it.

by evgen 17y ago

madair 17y ago

Ummm, Facebook's wall is quite a bit less ominous than Apple's. You may want to return that irony to the store, they cheated you and watered it down.

naz 17y ago
Collecting intimate personal details and selling it to advertisers is less ominous than screening apps to ensure quality?
- madair 17y ago
  I thought they shut down that program recently?
  - kyro 17y ago
    You're talking about Beacon, which would gather data about what you're doing on other sites.
- unalone 17y ago
  From a developer standpoint, immensely so.
  - indranil 17y ago
    huh!? O_o
    - unalone 17y ago
      What matters here isn't "Are Apple and Facebook soulless and oppressive corporations?" (I'd argue no, lots of people would argue yes; either way it's not important.) What matters is how each is treating its developers. Facebook is open to developers and their publications; Apple isn't.
- madair 17y ago
  For that the key is the privacy controls. We can argue about whether Facebook's privacy controls are good enough, whether they are selling our data, and so on. But that's got nothing to do with the Apple walled-garden comparison. I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple. And I will be so very very surprised if Facebook censors a dictionary app.
  - zmimon 17y ago
    > I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple If FB doesn't like your app they'll have it down in a jiffy too. It's not nearly so clear cut as you make out. Their review process is just reactive instead of front-loaded.
evgen 17y ago
The walls are still there. Facebook is still a roach motel for data and now they are going to be spanking platform developers whose apps are proving to be detrimental to Facebook's reputation and user experience. Same tune, different band.
- madair 17y ago
  What is implied by a roach motel for data? I hate walled gardens. But I really don't think they are objectively the same tune different band. You're saying they will be spanking platform devs who's apps prove detrimental...well that's pretty different from Apple. Hugely different. Hmmm, hardly in the same class. [edited to move part to a different parent comment]
  - ja30278 17y ago
    It's a reference to the old roach motel slogan: "Roaches check in, but they can't check out". In this case, referring to the fact that Facebook doesn't exactly go out of their way to provide you with the ability to 'take your data and leave'. Can you get an easy dump of all of your comments? Your friends' contact info? Your photos?
    - madair 17y ago
      Cool metaphor, I'll have to remember that.
    - u238 17y ago
      Yes, through the API.
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  Almost everything in facebook is openly accessible via API if you've granted permissions to an applications to do so. We've seen services like Tweetdeck and Seesmic and Brizzly act like portals to the data. Things get complicated with friends' data of course. Facebook has a collection of your friends phone numbers, and data access permissions and storage rights get complicated.

natrius 17y ago

Describe a social network with user-friendly privacy controls that doesn't fall under your definition of "walled garden".

tedunangst 17y ago
One with a link that says "Click here to download all your data."
- nailer 17y ago
  I know Facebook API and could make that without too much effort. Do you think the demand is there? What format would users want such data in?
  - jotto 17y ago
    they're getting closer but they're not there yet. they have an API method in beta that allows you to pull the last 50 posts of a user's mini-feed, and then you can grab comments for each post in the mini feed, but that's not going to get you all user contributions.

akamaka 17y ago

Agreed. It rings even more hollow given the recent revelation about widespread scams in Facebook apps. If his company was doing as good a job at protecting users as Apple had, I'd be more inclined to listen to him. The position he's taken is a purely self-interested one, asking for more developer freedom without even acknowledging the difficult challenge Apple faces, and without admitting that maybe his company could learn something from them.

davidw 17y ago

Recall that you pay nothing to use facebook, whereas with an iPhone, something that you physically own, you're not even really allowed to do as you please with it.