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The poem conveniently omits an important point - that Israel has never called for Iran's destruction whereas Iran has repeatedly called to "wipe Israel off the

by yehosef 12y ago

The poem conveniently omits an important point - that Israel has never called for Iran's destruction whereas Iran has repeatedly called to "wipe Israel off the map." Anyone who equates Israel and Iran on this issue is either ignorant or biased, possibly both. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leader-calls-for-the-destruction-of-israel/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leade...

dao- 12y ago
Yup, of course this is no coincidence. The "poem" is straight-out antisemitic. Old habits die hard, after all Grass had an SS history (that he forgot to mention over decades). [Edit] It's kind of obvious, but I'll say it since this is often missed by those applauding Grass for his late poem: If Israel wanted to destroy Iran, it had already done so, given its nuclear power. Instead, Israel has (so far successfully) used that nuclear power defensively to keep its neighbor countries from trying to destroy it.
- ff10 12y ago
  That is just profoundly wrong. In the 80s he stated that a country which was responsible for something like the Holocaust did not deserve to be re-unificated. It seemed that he had his fair share of issues with his past, that is we he himself decided to come out with it.
  - dao- 12y ago
    What exactly is wrong? Sure, he decided to come out with the truth about his past, but it was kind of late. I'm not sure I see the connection between my post and your reply.
    - littletimmy 12y ago
      Either what he is saying is right, or it is wrong. If it is right, he could eat babies for lunch and it would be right. If he is wrong, he could be the creator of the universe and all within it and still be wrong. Please stop with this ad-hominem nonsense.
      - dao- 12y ago
        Let me translate what I said / meant, then: What Grass was saying is wrong, and by the way it didn't surprise me given his shady history.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- mcantelon 12y ago
  Hindsight is 20/20. Grass likely joined the SS as he'd been drafted to do labor (and IIRC the Nazis weren't nice to those who tried to draft-dodge). He didn't fire a shot, committed no atrocities, and went on to criticize Nazi and bourgeois culture. Dismissing the poem as antisemitic without explaining how it's antisemitic is just a lazy, cheap shot.
- fforw 12y ago
  He joined the Waffen-SS in 1944 at the age of 17. The Waffen-SS was totally not the same as the SS.
huxley 12y ago
Ahmadinejad never said that, though ironically it was an Iranian news agency that mistranslated him. He was talking about three previous regimes that had fallen: the Shah of Iran, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein, saying that they had "vanished from the page of time", he expressed the hope that the regime that "occupies Jerusalem" would likewise "vanish from the page of time", at no point did he say that Iran would "wipe Israel off the map" The actual speech is relatively innocuous so the warhawks had to spin hard to make it into a direct threat. Now, Khamenei has apparently threatened Israel directly (via Twitter back in November) but he has also issued fatwas against the use and production of nuclear weapons calling them a crime against humanity and Allah. Consistency, much? The difficulty in judging these comments is telling what are threats and what is theatre. BTW, Vice-Premier Shimon Peres did threaten Iran just after the Ahmadinejad brouhaha: "The president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." -- The Jerusalem Post (2006-05-09). Taking stupid comments like those as direct threats is how pointless, tragic wars get started.
ajays 12y ago
Meanwhile, it's perfectly OK for Netanyahu to keep threatening to bomb Iran: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-... It's perfectly OK for the US/Israel to attack Iran's industrial infrastructure with a virus: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ (an act that Obama said would be an "act of war" if done to the US) It's perfectly OK for Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Israel-to-stop-killing-Iran-nuclear-scientists-343977 http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Is... And it's perfectly OK for people like John McCain (who came this >< close to becoming POTUS) to sing about bombing Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg But hey, Ahmedinajad says one sentence that's dubiously translated, and that's not OK.

by yehosef 12y ago

dao- 12y ago

Yup, of course this is no coincidence. The "poem" is straight-out antisemitic. Old habits die hard, after all Grass had an SS history (that he forgot to mention over decades). [Edit] It's kind of obvious, but I'll say it since this is often missed by those applauding Grass for his late poem: If Israel wanted to destroy Iran, it had already done so, given its nuclear power. Instead, Israel has (so far successfully) used that nuclear power defensively to keep its neighbor countries from trying to destroy it.

ff10 12y ago
That is just profoundly wrong. In the 80s he stated that a country which was responsible for something like the Holocaust did not deserve to be re-unificated. It seemed that he had his fair share of issues with his past, that is we he himself decided to come out with it.
- dao- 12y ago
  What exactly is wrong? Sure, he decided to come out with the truth about his past, but it was kind of late. I'm not sure I see the connection between my post and your reply.
  - littletimmy 12y ago
    Either what he is saying is right, or it is wrong. If it is right, he could eat babies for lunch and it would be right. If he is wrong, he could be the creator of the universe and all within it and still be wrong. Please stop with this ad-hominem nonsense.
    - dao- 12y ago
      Let me translate what I said / meant, then: What Grass was saying is wrong, and by the way it didn't surprise me given his shady history.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
mcantelon 12y ago
Hindsight is 20/20. Grass likely joined the SS as he'd been drafted to do labor (and IIRC the Nazis weren't nice to those who tried to draft-dodge). He didn't fire a shot, committed no atrocities, and went on to criticize Nazi and bourgeois culture. Dismissing the poem as antisemitic without explaining how it's antisemitic is just a lazy, cheap shot.
fforw 12y ago
He joined the Waffen-SS in 1944 at the age of 17. The Waffen-SS was totally not the same as the SS.

huxley 12y ago

Ahmadinejad never said that, though ironically it was an Iranian news agency that mistranslated him. He was talking about three previous regimes that had fallen: the Shah of Iran, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein, saying that they had "vanished from the page of time", he expressed the hope that the regime that "occupies Jerusalem" would likewise "vanish from the page of time", at no point did he say that Iran would "wipe Israel off the map" The actual speech is relatively innocuous so the warhawks had to spin hard to make it into a direct threat. Now, Khamenei has apparently threatened Israel directly (via Twitter back in November) but he has also issued fatwas against the use and production of nuclear weapons calling them a crime against humanity and Allah. Consistency, much? The difficulty in judging these comments is telling what are threats and what is theatre. BTW, Vice-Premier Shimon Peres did threaten Iran just after the Ahmadinejad brouhaha: "The president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." -- The Jerusalem Post (2006-05-09). Taking stupid comments like those as direct threats is how pointless, tragic wars get started.

ajays 12y ago

Meanwhile, it's perfectly OK for Netanyahu to keep threatening to bomb Iran: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-... It's perfectly OK for the US/Israel to attack Iran's industrial infrastructure with a virus: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ (an act that Obama said would be an "act of war" if done to the US) It's perfectly OK for Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Israel-to-stop-killing-Iran-nuclear-scientists-343977 http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Is... And it's perfectly OK for people like John McCain (who came this >< close to becoming POTUS) to sing about bombing Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg But hey, Ahmedinajad says one sentence that's dubiously translated, and that's not OK.