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His poem "What Must Be Said" is a wonderful commentary on Israel and the threat it poses to world peace. He talks about how the West has turned a blind eye to I

His poem "What Must Be Said" is a wonderful commentary on Israel and the threat it poses to world peace. He talks about how the West has turned a blind eye to Israel's development of nuclear weapons because of its collective guilt. He argues that this must stop. Here it is (translated): https://kugelmass.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/a-legitimate-translation-of-gunter-grasss-was-gesagt-werden-muss/ https://kugelmass.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/a-legitimate-tran...

jacquesm 12y ago
He may have a point but I can think of less controversial figures than Grass to make it.
yehosef 12y ago
The poem conveniently omits an important point - that Israel has never called for Iran's destruction whereas Iran has repeatedly called to "wipe Israel off the map." Anyone who equates Israel and Iran on this issue is either ignorant or biased, possibly both. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leader-calls-for-the-destruction-of-israel/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leade...
- dao- 12y ago
  Yup, of course this is no coincidence. The "poem" is straight-out antisemitic. Old habits die hard, after all Grass had an SS history (that he forgot to mention over decades). [Edit] It's kind of obvious, but I'll say it since this is often missed by those applauding Grass for his late poem: If Israel wanted to destroy Iran, it had already done so, given its nuclear power. Instead, Israel has (so far successfully) used that nuclear power defensively to keep its neighbor countries from trying to destroy it.
  - ff10 12y ago
    That is just profoundly wrong. In the 80s he stated that a country which was responsible for something like the Holocaust did not deserve to be re-unificated. It seemed that he had his fair share of issues with his past, that is we he himself decided to come out with it.
    - dao- 12y ago
      What exactly is wrong? Sure, he decided to come out with the truth about his past, but it was kind of late. I'm not sure I see the connection between my post and your reply.
      - littletimmy 12y ago
        Either what he is saying is right, or it is wrong. If it is right, he could eat babies for lunch and it would be right. If he is wrong, he could be the creator of the universe and all within it and still be wrong. Please stop with this ad-hominem nonsense.
        dao- 12y ago
        Let me translate what I said / meant, then: What Grass was saying is wrong, and by the way it didn't surprise me given his shady history.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
  - mcantelon 12y ago
    Hindsight is 20/20. Grass likely joined the SS as he'd been drafted to do labor (and IIRC the Nazis weren't nice to those who tried to draft-dodge). He didn't fire a shot, committed no atrocities, and went on to criticize Nazi and bourgeois culture. Dismissing the poem as antisemitic without explaining how it's antisemitic is just a lazy, cheap shot.
  - fforw 12y ago
    He joined the Waffen-SS in 1944 at the age of 17. The Waffen-SS was totally not the same as the SS.
- huxley 12y ago
  Ahmadinejad never said that, though ironically it was an Iranian news agency that mistranslated him. He was talking about three previous regimes that had fallen: the Shah of Iran, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein, saying that they had "vanished from the page of time", he expressed the hope that the regime that "occupies Jerusalem" would likewise "vanish from the page of time", at no point did he say that Iran would "wipe Israel off the map" The actual speech is relatively innocuous so the warhawks had to spin hard to make it into a direct threat. Now, Khamenei has apparently threatened Israel directly (via Twitter back in November) but he has also issued fatwas against the use and production of nuclear weapons calling them a crime against humanity and Allah. Consistency, much? The difficulty in judging these comments is telling what are threats and what is theatre. BTW, Vice-Premier Shimon Peres did threaten Iran just after the Ahmadinejad brouhaha: "The president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." -- The Jerusalem Post (2006-05-09). Taking stupid comments like those as direct threats is how pointless, tragic wars get started.
- ajays 12y ago
  Meanwhile, it's perfectly OK for Netanyahu to keep threatening to bomb Iran: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-... It's perfectly OK for the US/Israel to attack Iran's industrial infrastructure with a virus: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ (an act that Obama said would be an "act of war" if done to the US) It's perfectly OK for Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Israel-to-stop-killing-Iran-nuclear-scientists-343977 http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Is... And it's perfectly OK for people like John McCain (who came this >< close to becoming POTUS) to sing about bombing Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg But hey, Ahmedinajad says one sentence that's dubiously translated, and that's not OK.
dao- 12y ago
> the threat it poses to world peace Some poeple are living in an alternative reality. Wars have been and are taking place all over the place without Israel's involvement. World peace doesn't exist, so the idea that Israel would threaten it is maniac.
nir 12y ago
Since this is a hacker crowd where data should count for something, consider that the entire Arab-Israeli conflict since 1948 so far caused less than half as many deaths as the current Syrian civil war, let alone the Iran-Iraq War or the Iraq invasion. So, claiming this nation of 7 million that is smaller in size than Lake Michigan to be "posing a threat to world peace" is pathetic, and frankly says much more about Grass than Israel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
- littletimmy 12y ago
  How about we rephrase your sentence a little: So, claiming this group [Al-Qaeda] of several thousand that is smaller in size than a football stadium to be "posing a threat to world peace" is pathetic, and frankly says much more about the US military than al-Qaeda. Still agree with me? Size has absolutely no relation whatsoever on the ability to threaten something, particularly when said party has nuclear weapons.
  - nir 12y ago
    Of course I agree. Al Qaeda doesn't have the capacity to really threaten world peace except by provoking a shortsighted response, which they did. But the comparison is meaningless anyway. AQ is not a nation, it's an organization with a certain ideology. It's not comparable to a country, like Israel, which is a collection of various ideologies and worldviews.
    - nebolo 12y ago
      While I agree with you, I think what is claimed it that Israel and AQ are unique in their potential for destruction ("threaten world peace") not necessarily their previous actions in that regard. If that is the case, comparing their body count is almost meaningless.
shmulkey18 12y ago
Former Nazi criticizes the Jewish state. Shocker.

jacquesm 12y ago

He may have a point but I can think of less controversial figures than Grass to make it.

yehosef 12y ago

The poem conveniently omits an important point - that Israel has never called for Iran's destruction whereas Iran has repeatedly called to "wipe Israel off the map." Anyone who equates Israel and Iran on this issue is either ignorant or biased, possibly both. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leader-calls-for-the-destruction-of-israel/ http://video.foxnews.com/v/3704646723001/irans-supreme-leade...

dao- 12y ago
Yup, of course this is no coincidence. The "poem" is straight-out antisemitic. Old habits die hard, after all Grass had an SS history (that he forgot to mention over decades). [Edit] It's kind of obvious, but I'll say it since this is often missed by those applauding Grass for his late poem: If Israel wanted to destroy Iran, it had already done so, given its nuclear power. Instead, Israel has (so far successfully) used that nuclear power defensively to keep its neighbor countries from trying to destroy it.
- ff10 12y ago
  That is just profoundly wrong. In the 80s he stated that a country which was responsible for something like the Holocaust did not deserve to be re-unificated. It seemed that he had his fair share of issues with his past, that is we he himself decided to come out with it.
  - dao- 12y ago
    What exactly is wrong? Sure, he decided to come out with the truth about his past, but it was kind of late. I'm not sure I see the connection between my post and your reply.
    - littletimmy 12y ago
      Either what he is saying is right, or it is wrong. If it is right, he could eat babies for lunch and it would be right. If he is wrong, he could be the creator of the universe and all within it and still be wrong. Please stop with this ad-hominem nonsense.
      - dao- 12y ago
        Let me translate what I said / meant, then: What Grass was saying is wrong, and by the way it didn't surprise me given his shady history.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- mcantelon 12y ago
  Hindsight is 20/20. Grass likely joined the SS as he'd been drafted to do labor (and IIRC the Nazis weren't nice to those who tried to draft-dodge). He didn't fire a shot, committed no atrocities, and went on to criticize Nazi and bourgeois culture. Dismissing the poem as antisemitic without explaining how it's antisemitic is just a lazy, cheap shot.
- fforw 12y ago
  He joined the Waffen-SS in 1944 at the age of 17. The Waffen-SS was totally not the same as the SS.
huxley 12y ago
Ahmadinejad never said that, though ironically it was an Iranian news agency that mistranslated him. He was talking about three previous regimes that had fallen: the Shah of Iran, the Soviet Union and Saddam Hussein, saying that they had "vanished from the page of time", he expressed the hope that the regime that "occupies Jerusalem" would likewise "vanish from the page of time", at no point did he say that Iran would "wipe Israel off the map" The actual speech is relatively innocuous so the warhawks had to spin hard to make it into a direct threat. Now, Khamenei has apparently threatened Israel directly (via Twitter back in November) but he has also issued fatwas against the use and production of nuclear weapons calling them a crime against humanity and Allah. Consistency, much? The difficulty in judging these comments is telling what are threats and what is theatre. BTW, Vice-Premier Shimon Peres did threaten Iran just after the Ahmadinejad brouhaha: "The president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." -- The Jerusalem Post (2006-05-09). Taking stupid comments like those as direct threats is how pointless, tragic wars get started.
ajays 12y ago
Meanwhile, it's perfectly OK for Netanyahu to keep threatening to bomb Iran: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/ https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-... It's perfectly OK for the US/Israel to attack Iran's industrial infrastructure with a virus: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ http://www.wired.com/2014/11/countdown-to-zero-day-stuxnet/ (an act that Obama said would be an "act of war" if done to the US) It's perfectly OK for Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Israel-to-stop-killing-Iran-nuclear-scientists-343977 http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-pressuring-Is... And it's perfectly OK for people like John McCain (who came this >< close to becoming POTUS) to sing about bombing Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg But hey, Ahmedinajad says one sentence that's dubiously translated, and that's not OK.

dao- 12y ago

> the threat it poses to world peace Some poeple are living in an alternative reality. Wars have been and are taking place all over the place without Israel's involvement. World peace doesn't exist, so the idea that Israel would threaten it is maniac.

nir 12y ago

Since this is a hacker crowd where data should count for something, consider that the entire Arab-Israeli conflict since 1948 so far caused less than half as many deaths as the current Syrian civil war, let alone the Iran-Iraq War or the Iraq invasion. So, claiming this nation of 7 million that is smaller in size than Lake Michigan to be "posing a threat to world peace" is pathetic, and frankly says much more about Grass than Israel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

littletimmy 12y ago
How about we rephrase your sentence a little: So, claiming this group [Al-Qaeda] of several thousand that is smaller in size than a football stadium to be "posing a threat to world peace" is pathetic, and frankly says much more about the US military than al-Qaeda. Still agree with me? Size has absolutely no relation whatsoever on the ability to threaten something, particularly when said party has nuclear weapons.
- nir 12y ago
  Of course I agree. Al Qaeda doesn't have the capacity to really threaten world peace except by provoking a shortsighted response, which they did. But the comparison is meaningless anyway. AQ is not a nation, it's an organization with a certain ideology. It's not comparable to a country, like Israel, which is a collection of various ideologies and worldviews.
  - nebolo 12y ago
    While I agree with you, I think what is claimed it that Israel and AQ are unique in their potential for destruction ("threaten world peace") not necessarily their previous actions in that regard. If that is the case, comparing their body count is almost meaningless.

shmulkey18 12y ago

Former Nazi criticizes the Jewish state. Shocker.