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Spain's hologram protest: Thousands join virtual march against new gag law

148 points by kurren 12y ago

phesse14 12y ago
It's a pretty good idea imo . I don't share most of the complains about the law, but the one they refer to "protest in front of public buildings" is unbelievable. For instance, according to this, Transferwise could have never lead a naked march on Wall Street
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Just the fact that they plan to charge "up to 600,000 euro" for protesting should be the reason to kill the whole law. Such a fine can only be useful in deterring free speech. It's not going to deter terrorism or other stuff like that.
ehmmm 12y ago
The worst one is: For carrying out assemblies or meetings in public spaces – 100 to 600€ fine. http://revolution-news.com/spanish-congress-approves-draconian-laws-essentially-sending-spain-back-to-the-dark-ages/ http://revolution-news.com/spanish-congress-approves-draconi... How do you define a meeting in a public space?
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Sadly this brings back memories from the old days. Speaking from those dark times, it would be enough if the police would spot a group of say three people talking together in the street.
acd 12y ago
Police state
KajMagnus 12y ago
Why is the Spanish Congress doing this? What are the long term goals?
- intopieces 12y ago
  Spain has 25%+ unemployment and has for a long time. Measures like this are to prevent riots (this is their logic - not making a statement about the validity of the law itself)
  - JulianMorrison 12y ago
    Laws don't prevent riots. If anything the opposite, they bottle anger until it explodes. But they do make it easier to demonize rioters.
    - intopieces 12y ago
      Sometimes they do. For example, in Spain, they protested with holograms instead of with their bodies because of a law the banned protests outside of public buildings.
      - pvaldes 12y ago
        This is not a valid example. You said it. They protested, pacifically, and now they can't. A protest is a basic right that is (was?) granted by the constitution. When pacific protest is automatically equaled to riot, just because, then we have a big problem here: Constitution is not legal anymore.
      - KajMagnus 12y ago
        That's not a valid example. The laws didn't stop any protest, instead they caused a hologram protest — that protest wouldn't have happened at all, were it not for the laws.
  - KajMagnus 12y ago
    Something I'm thinking is unrelated to preventing riots, is forbidding people to take pictures of or record the police. Why will that be forbidden? ("Photographing or recording police – 600 to 30.000€ fine") I'm thinking that when one isn't allowed to take pictures of or record the police, then badly behaving policemen can beat up anyone and everyone, and do anything they want, with impunity, since it will be hard to show that the police did anything wrong or who did it.
usaphp 12y ago
Isn't their a law in every developed country that restricts unauthorized meeting of lots of people already? Am I missing something?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ehmmm 12y ago
  Perhaps you meant organized public meeting with a specific purpose? Having just read some of my countries law( a developed country ) on the subject you are somewhat right. Public meetings are regulated and must be registered. To qualify, the location, participation and organization must be public. Technically an arranged meeting with your friends in a public space could be considered a public meeting. This probably wasn't the intention of the writers of the law, but interpreting it as it is written, it gets that ridiculous.
pvaldes 12y ago
A lot of laws in Spain those years seem to be created with the only purpose of either gaining time (for prescription of former crimes for politicians) or to guarantee the creation of a new "damage" that could be claimed (by friends or family of politicians) and billed to spaniards later if the law is repealed (as is expected to be, of course). An example: Spaniards will pay >1400 millions/euro in the next years to a private enterprise for the right to stop hundred of unexpected earthquakes in some heavily populated points of the mediterranean coast. Earthquakes that were linked with the activity of this enterprise, a personal bet of some politicians. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10365300/Spain-faces-1bn-bill-over-gas-plant-linked-to-earthquakes.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10365... https://www.thespainreport.com/6623/hundreds-earthquakes-caused-directly-castor-gas-project-say-spanish-geologists/ https://www.thespainreport.com/6623/hundreds-earthquakes-cau... We have new laws that grant hunting animals in national parks, cutting down trees, fracking, etc... In the future, when people think about to repeal the law, a miriad of complaints for lost profits will probably be filled by multinationals and major landowners. We'll need to pay someone for the right of repeal those crazy laws. Is, most probably, a business.
quinndupont 12y ago
This is an absolutely genius exploration of new forms of critique. We now live in a world in which marching on the streets, political protests, and demonstrations are immediately met with a militarized response sanctioned by the FUD of terrorism. The shift, the first protest in this new era, was likely 1999 WTO protests in Seattle, WA. Since then, the whole enterprise has become a game or dance: people march on the streets, the police crack down and drum up support for new, better military gear. Anonymous, for whatever your stance on their questionable politics, was interesting precisely because it offered an alternative to this dance. A hologram protest is another interesting approach.
- themartorana 12y ago
  For the little or lot it's worth, filming and photographing police activity in public is rather strongly protected in the U.S., whereas the Gag Law sets fines of €30,000 for doing so. It may be the last bastion of true freedom in a Free Speech Zone world, but it's no minor difference.
mintplant 12y ago
Anyone know how this was done?
- ThatOtherPerson 12y ago
  It looks like a video projected on a transparent screen, similar to the variant of Pepper's Ghost used in several concerts recently.
jqm 12y ago
To me, this indicates the government of Spain envisions more things to protest coming soon. Not a good sign.
a_hologram 12y ago
...and in other news, the United States government is said to be contsructing a new carrier-grade backbone network in anticipation of the expected petabit scale traffic preciptated by an emerging new fad referred to as "hologram flash mobbing." When consulted, a panel of scientists suggested instead that it might be more practical to place a very bright lightbulb in front of the capitol building. This suggestion preciptated a large spike in hologram traffic when a spokesperson for the organization, the swift boat veterans for truth, questioned whether the light bulb might shine brighter than the eternal flame at the tomb of the unknown soldier, to which one member of the panel flippantly replied: "Well, the inverse square law suggests that if you'd prefer a brighter flame you could always go stand within it."
pjmlp 12y ago
I was unaware of this law. Sad dark times seem to be ahead. As a Portuguese that still lived the early days of the new democracy, I know quite well what living under Salazar meant. And Franco's ruling wasn't any different, if worse. Laws like these just bring back memories of those days.
Eye_of_Mordor 12y ago
Isn't Spain subject to the European Convention on Human Rights?

148 points by kurren 12y ago

It's a pretty good idea imo . I don't share most of the complains about the law, but the one they refer to "protest in front of public buildings" is unbelievable. For instance, according to this, Transferwise could have never lead a naked march on Wall Street

higherpurpose 12y ago
Just the fact that they plan to charge "up to 600,000 euro" for protesting should be the reason to kill the whole law. Such a fine can only be useful in deterring free speech. It's not going to deter terrorism or other stuff like that.

ehmmm 12y ago

The worst one is: For carrying out assemblies or meetings in public spaces – 100 to 600€ fine. http://revolution-news.com/spanish-congress-approves-draconian-laws-essentially-sending-spain-back-to-the-dark-ages/ http://revolution-news.com/spanish-congress-approves-draconi... How do you define a meeting in a public space?

pjmlp 12y ago
Sadly this brings back memories from the old days. Speaking from those dark times, it would be enough if the police would spot a group of say three people talking together in the street.

acd 12y ago

Police state

KajMagnus 12y ago

Why is the Spanish Congress doing this? What are the long term goals?

intopieces 12y ago
Spain has 25%+ unemployment and has for a long time. Measures like this are to prevent riots (this is their logic - not making a statement about the validity of the law itself)
- JulianMorrison 12y ago
  Laws don't prevent riots. If anything the opposite, they bottle anger until it explodes. But they do make it easier to demonize rioters.
  - intopieces 12y ago
    Sometimes they do. For example, in Spain, they protested with holograms instead of with their bodies because of a law the banned protests outside of public buildings.
    - pvaldes 12y ago
      This is not a valid example. You said it. They protested, pacifically, and now they can't. A protest is a basic right that is (was?) granted by the constitution. When pacific protest is automatically equaled to riot, just because, then we have a big problem here: Constitution is not legal anymore.
    - KajMagnus 12y ago
      That's not a valid example. The laws didn't stop any protest, instead they caused a hologram protest — that protest wouldn't have happened at all, were it not for the laws.
- KajMagnus 12y ago
  Something I'm thinking is unrelated to preventing riots, is forbidding people to take pictures of or record the police. Why will that be forbidden? ("Photographing or recording police – 600 to 30.000€ fine") I'm thinking that when one isn't allowed to take pictures of or record the police, then badly behaving policemen can beat up anyone and everyone, and do anything they want, with impunity, since it will be hard to show that the police did anything wrong or who did it.

usaphp 12y ago

Isn't their a law in every developed country that restricts unauthorized meeting of lots of people already? Am I missing something?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ehmmm 12y ago
Perhaps you meant organized public meeting with a specific purpose? Having just read some of my countries law( a developed country ) on the subject you are somewhat right. Public meetings are regulated and must be registered. To qualify, the location, participation and organization must be public. Technically an arranged meeting with your friends in a public space could be considered a public meeting. This probably wasn't the intention of the writers of the law, but interpreting it as it is written, it gets that ridiculous.

pvaldes 12y ago

A lot of laws in Spain those years seem to be created with the only purpose of either gaining time (for prescription of former crimes for politicians) or to guarantee the creation of a new "damage" that could be claimed (by friends or family of politicians) and billed to spaniards later if the law is repealed (as is expected to be, of course). An example: Spaniards will pay >1400 millions/euro in the next years to a private enterprise for the right to stop hundred of unexpected earthquakes in some heavily populated points of the mediterranean coast. Earthquakes that were linked with the activity of this enterprise, a personal bet of some politicians. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10365300/Spain-faces-1bn-bill-over-gas-plant-linked-to-earthquakes.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10365... https://www.thespainreport.com/6623/hundreds-earthquakes-caused-directly-castor-gas-project-say-spanish-geologists/ https://www.thespainreport.com/6623/hundreds-earthquakes-cau... We have new laws that grant hunting animals in national parks, cutting down trees, fracking, etc... In the future, when people think about to repeal the law, a miriad of complaints for lost profits will probably be filled by multinationals and major landowners. We'll need to pay someone for the right of repeal those crazy laws. Is, most probably, a business.

quinndupont 12y ago

This is an absolutely genius exploration of new forms of critique. We now live in a world in which marching on the streets, political protests, and demonstrations are immediately met with a militarized response sanctioned by the FUD of terrorism. The shift, the first protest in this new era, was likely 1999 WTO protests in Seattle, WA. Since then, the whole enterprise has become a game or dance: people march on the streets, the police crack down and drum up support for new, better military gear. Anonymous, for whatever your stance on their questionable politics, was interesting precisely because it offered an alternative to this dance. A hologram protest is another interesting approach.

themartorana 12y ago
For the little or lot it's worth, filming and photographing police activity in public is rather strongly protected in the U.S., whereas the Gag Law sets fines of €30,000 for doing so. It may be the last bastion of true freedom in a Free Speech Zone world, but it's no minor difference.

mintplant 12y ago

Anyone know how this was done?

ThatOtherPerson 12y ago
It looks like a video projected on a transparent screen, similar to the variant of Pepper's Ghost used in several concerts recently.

jqm 12y ago

To me, this indicates the government of Spain envisions more things to protest coming soon. Not a good sign.

a_hologram 12y ago

...and in other news, the United States government is said to be contsructing a new carrier-grade backbone network in anticipation of the expected petabit scale traffic preciptated by an emerging new fad referred to as "hologram flash mobbing." When consulted, a panel of scientists suggested instead that it might be more practical to place a very bright lightbulb in front of the capitol building. This suggestion preciptated a large spike in hologram traffic when a spokesperson for the organization, the swift boat veterans for truth, questioned whether the light bulb might shine brighter than the eternal flame at the tomb of the unknown soldier, to which one member of the panel flippantly replied: "Well, the inverse square law suggests that if you'd prefer a brighter flame you could always go stand within it."

pjmlp 12y ago

I was unaware of this law. Sad dark times seem to be ahead. As a Portuguese that still lived the early days of the new democracy, I know quite well what living under Salazar meant. And Franco's ruling wasn't any different, if worse. Laws like these just bring back memories of those days.

Eye_of_Mordor 12y ago

Isn't Spain subject to the European Convention on Human Rights?