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After reading Plato's dialogues I went through a phase of having Socratic dialogues with people instead of arguing with them. I found, as had the Greek citizen

After reading Plato's dialogues I went through a phase of having Socratic dialogues with people instead of arguing with them. I found, as had the Greek citizens 2.5 millennia ago, that having someone question you Socratically is super annoying and condescending. At least I didn't annoy them so badly that they sentenced me to death. Which isn't to say that the method can't be used profitably in some settings. Just not general life. The moment where the people you're talking to have an epiphany and thank you for it is a fiction.

visakanv 12y ago
I think the challenge is to ask people questions in a way that isn't condescending, where you're not necessarily trying to corner them into some preconceived position. My boss has a great way of asking questions– he precedes them with "just out of curiosity...", and I always get the sense that he's really, genuinely curious. He's gotten me to think about things that I hadn't even considered before, and I'm very thankful for it. I've grown to adopt it myself, and I've found it helpful even in my marriage and in my friendships. There are many different ways to say something like, "Hey, I notice that this happened– any idea why that is?" With the right tone and body language, people just open up. It's wonderful.
- texthompson 12y ago
  > With the right tone and body language, people just open up. It's wonderful. Also, your boss might be genuinely curious. A lot of people who employ this technique precompute trajectory for arriving at their conclusion. They're often right, but the times when they're wrong are really interesting. Bottom line - I agree with you. Don't be condescending, because you might learn something from the people around you. :)
Eupolemos 12y ago
Well, not necessarily - it is a matter of context. If you start doing that stuff when people just want to chat, then you're being annoying. But it is also used for intellectual/leadership coaching, called Protreptic. And if the one doing the coaching knows what he or she is doing, it should be very good.
diminoten 12y ago
People will fight you, too. As in, you ask a question and they will refuse to answer it in any way that might be perceived as advancing your point. You need two willing participants, otherwise it's a) annoying and b) immensely difficult. The only way I've been able to execute the socratic method against an unwilling/unwitting person is to basically corner them with questions, and people hate that. It's also difficult to craft the perfect question that a person can't weasel out of.
- rgarlikov 12y ago
  There IS a difference between using the method to teach a receptive learner who wants to understand the logic of the topic, and using it to try to change someone's mind. Socrates did make many enemies because he was often trying to change people's minds about strong beliefs they held dear. People tend not to like that and to resist any logic that leads to a contradiction of their beliefs. But that is true even if you present your case as an article, essay, or lecture that has no questions.
alexashka 12y ago
It is a matter of attitude, approach and social savviness, rather than the 'method.' Give somebody who's socially savvy the socratic method, or something else, they'll do well. Give somebody who argues with people any method, they'll fail. The key takeaway here is 'argue' - if you argue with people, you are not doing it right. There's really no situation in life where that's necessary or the optimal approach. Most people don't know this, so... It is a lot like yelling at or hitting people - if you don't realize that if you stoop down to that level more than a couple of times a year, YOU are the asshole, no amount of socratic or otherwise is going to help. The standard for behaviour simply needs to change. Once you raise the bar to 'talking down to people is not acceptable' - all of a sudden you'll find that arguments don't happen anymore, who is there to argue with? It is either a negotiation or a conversation that you are choosing to have. Most teachers don't know this. The amount of talking down to kids is incredible, they just don't know any better. I saw 'A most violent year' recently - it is a great example of how to handle stressful situations. Should be mandatory viewing for all adults really.

visakanv 12y ago

I think the challenge is to ask people questions in a way that isn't condescending, where you're not necessarily trying to corner them into some preconceived position. My boss has a great way of asking questions– he precedes them with "just out of curiosity...", and I always get the sense that he's really, genuinely curious. He's gotten me to think about things that I hadn't even considered before, and I'm very thankful for it. I've grown to adopt it myself, and I've found it helpful even in my marriage and in my friendships. There are many different ways to say something like, "Hey, I notice that this happened– any idea why that is?" With the right tone and body language, people just open up. It's wonderful.

texthompson 12y ago
> With the right tone and body language, people just open up. It's wonderful. Also, your boss might be genuinely curious. A lot of people who employ this technique precompute trajectory for arriving at their conclusion. They're often right, but the times when they're wrong are really interesting. Bottom line - I agree with you. Don't be condescending, because you might learn something from the people around you. :)

Eupolemos 12y ago

Well, not necessarily - it is a matter of context. If you start doing that stuff when people just want to chat, then you're being annoying. But it is also used for intellectual/leadership coaching, called Protreptic. And if the one doing the coaching knows what he or she is doing, it should be very good.

diminoten 12y ago

People will fight you, too. As in, you ask a question and they will refuse to answer it in any way that might be perceived as advancing your point. You need two willing participants, otherwise it's a) annoying and b) immensely difficult. The only way I've been able to execute the socratic method against an unwilling/unwitting person is to basically corner them with questions, and people hate that. It's also difficult to craft the perfect question that a person can't weasel out of.

rgarlikov 12y ago
There IS a difference between using the method to teach a receptive learner who wants to understand the logic of the topic, and using it to try to change someone's mind. Socrates did make many enemies because he was often trying to change people's minds about strong beliefs they held dear. People tend not to like that and to resist any logic that leads to a contradiction of their beliefs. But that is true even if you present your case as an article, essay, or lecture that has no questions.

alexashka 12y ago

It is a matter of attitude, approach and social savviness, rather than the 'method.' Give somebody who's socially savvy the socratic method, or something else, they'll do well. Give somebody who argues with people any method, they'll fail. The key takeaway here is 'argue' - if you argue with people, you are not doing it right. There's really no situation in life where that's necessary or the optimal approach. Most people don't know this, so... It is a lot like yelling at or hitting people - if you don't realize that if you stoop down to that level more than a couple of times a year, YOU are the asshole, no amount of socratic or otherwise is going to help. The standard for behaviour simply needs to change. Once you raise the bar to 'talking down to people is not acceptable' - all of a sudden you'll find that arguments don't happen anymore, who is there to argue with? It is either a negotiation or a conversation that you are choosing to have. Most teachers don't know this. The amount of talking down to kids is incredible, they just don't know any better. I saw 'A most violent year' recently - it is a great example of how to handle stressful situations. Should be mandatory viewing for all adults really.