4 ms·

the potential downside is why we, as rational adults, treat the access itself as a serious issue and not just a "harmless prank". I have never advocated for pu

by ux-app 12y ago

the potential downside is why we, as rational adults, treat the access itself as a serious issue and not just a "harmless prank". I have never advocated for punishing this student for all of the potential harm he could have hypothetically inflicted. I have merely been trying to establish that the access itself is serious and downplaying it as a "harmless prank" does nobody any good!

jacquesm 12y ago
If the adults had treated the potential downside serious then there would have been better access control, a harmless prank is still a harmless prank. Some people saw an image: big deal.
- ux-app 12y ago
  > Some people saw an image: big deal. This is called not seeing the forest for the trees. The image is (mostly) irrelevant. The unauthorised access is serious. A rational adult, knowing that their career and livelihood could be put in jeopardy by a malicious student (this one or another) wouldn't allow this incident to slide as just a "harmless prank". To do so would be highly reckless and could put your own family's livelihood at risk. If you were a teacher you would be acutely aware of the risks posed by being soft on this kind of infringement. It sets a precedent and opens one up to repeat "attacks". The word would quickly spread that "Don't worry, Mr.X is cool he doesn't care if you use another person's account without their knowledge". This runs contrary to the basic principles of computer ethics which is a cornerstone of what we teach, at my school at least! > If the adults had treated the potential downside serious then there would have been better access control This is a poor argument. If the passwords were stronger then what would stop the student from using a keylogger? If the school treats logging in as a teacher as a "harmless prank" what harm is there in using a keylogger to obtain the pw? After all, shoulder surfing wasn't punished, hahaha isn't school a laugh! The point is that the punishment should be severe enough that other students who would contemplate using a teacher's account without their permission would think twice.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Why do you keep bringing up stuff that didn't happen? The student did not do anything more harmful than replace a background image, he did not put someones career and livelihood at risk, did not put my family's livelihood at risk (where did that come from anyway?), the student did not use a keylogger (which would arguably require physical access first, at which point it is game over anyway) and so on. My point is that all the stuff that you bring up did not happen and making an example out of someone just because he could have done worse sends the wrong message entirely, it says: you're going to get the book thrown at you anyway so once you cross that particular line you might as well go all in and do real harm because you will be punished as if you had anyway.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      The In my opinion there should have been a proportionate, but serious school-based consequence. in a comment above does not sound like book throwing to me. I think the argument here is more over how to state things than about what should reasonably happen to the student in these circumstances (I guess there is lots of room to disagree on 'proportionate', but I'm not sure that is what you are doing at the moment).
    - ux-app 12y ago
      I thought I made my point quite easy to understand. Unauthorized access to anyone's account is not a harmless prank! This goes double for accessing the teacher's account!! These are the facts that I have been addressing. At no point have I introduced hypotheticals that did not occur. The student accessed the teacher's account by guessing or shoulder surfing for the PW. This is unacceptable and should in no way be treated as a "harmless prank". Allowing this type of access does set a negative precedent which does open up a teacher to unnecessary risk! I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse in regard to this simple point. This is a simple case of unauthorized computer access. In the adult world this is a criminal act. In the juvenile world the response should reflect the seriousness of the act. Your response seems to be "well.... kids will be kids and after all no harm was done". This is not how we educate ethical computer users. let me again! resate what I have already said. I am not saying that the student should be punished for any potential trouble he could have caused. The act of gaining access to another person's account by nefarious (which includes simple guessing of the PW) means is itself a serious issue which warrants a serious response. EDIT: From the article: "A student at a Tampa Bay-area middle school was charged with a felony cyber crime after gaining unauthorized access to a teacher's computer and changing the desktop photo." from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act It seems rather cut and dried that under US law this teen was committing a federal crime by gaining unauthorized access to a school computer system (state school i'm guessing). Now agree or disagree with the law, it is what it is. I categorically do not agree that this matter should have been made a police issue. This is an unnecessary escalation of matters in my opinion. But your response of "harmless prank" is completely unreasonable and does not address the gravity of the situation.

by ux-app 12y ago

jacquesm 12y ago

If the adults had treated the potential downside serious then there would have been better access control, a harmless prank is still a harmless prank. Some people saw an image: big deal.

ux-app 12y ago
> Some people saw an image: big deal. This is called not seeing the forest for the trees. The image is (mostly) irrelevant. The unauthorised access is serious. A rational adult, knowing that their career and livelihood could be put in jeopardy by a malicious student (this one or another) wouldn't allow this incident to slide as just a "harmless prank". To do so would be highly reckless and could put your own family's livelihood at risk. If you were a teacher you would be acutely aware of the risks posed by being soft on this kind of infringement. It sets a precedent and opens one up to repeat "attacks". The word would quickly spread that "Don't worry, Mr.X is cool he doesn't care if you use another person's account without their knowledge". This runs contrary to the basic principles of computer ethics which is a cornerstone of what we teach, at my school at least! > If the adults had treated the potential downside serious then there would have been better access control This is a poor argument. If the passwords were stronger then what would stop the student from using a keylogger? If the school treats logging in as a teacher as a "harmless prank" what harm is there in using a keylogger to obtain the pw? After all, shoulder surfing wasn't punished, hahaha isn't school a laugh! The point is that the punishment should be severe enough that other students who would contemplate using a teacher's account without their permission would think twice.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Why do you keep bringing up stuff that didn't happen? The student did not do anything more harmful than replace a background image, he did not put someones career and livelihood at risk, did not put my family's livelihood at risk (where did that come from anyway?), the student did not use a keylogger (which would arguably require physical access first, at which point it is game over anyway) and so on. My point is that all the stuff that you bring up did not happen and making an example out of someone just because he could have done worse sends the wrong message entirely, it says: you're going to get the book thrown at you anyway so once you cross that particular line you might as well go all in and do real harm because you will be punished as if you had anyway.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    The In my opinion there should have been a proportionate, but serious school-based consequence. in a comment above does not sound like book throwing to me. I think the argument here is more over how to state things than about what should reasonably happen to the student in these circumstances (I guess there is lots of room to disagree on 'proportionate', but I'm not sure that is what you are doing at the moment).
  - ux-app 12y ago
    I thought I made my point quite easy to understand. Unauthorized access to anyone's account is not a harmless prank! This goes double for accessing the teacher's account!! These are the facts that I have been addressing. At no point have I introduced hypotheticals that did not occur. The student accessed the teacher's account by guessing or shoulder surfing for the PW. This is unacceptable and should in no way be treated as a "harmless prank". Allowing this type of access does set a negative precedent which does open up a teacher to unnecessary risk! I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse in regard to this simple point. This is a simple case of unauthorized computer access. In the adult world this is a criminal act. In the juvenile world the response should reflect the seriousness of the act. Your response seems to be "well.... kids will be kids and after all no harm was done". This is not how we educate ethical computer users. let me again! resate what I have already said. I am not saying that the student should be punished for any potential trouble he could have caused. The act of gaining access to another person's account by nefarious (which includes simple guessing of the PW) means is itself a serious issue which warrants a serious response. EDIT: From the article: "A student at a Tampa Bay-area middle school was charged with a felony cyber crime after gaining unauthorized access to a teacher's computer and changing the desktop photo." from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act It seems rather cut and dried that under US law this teen was committing a federal crime by gaining unauthorized access to a school computer system (state school i'm guessing). Now agree or disagree with the law, it is what it is. I categorically do not agree that this matter should have been made a police issue. This is an unnecessary escalation of matters in my opinion. But your response of "harmless prank" is completely unreasonable and does not address the gravity of the situation.