4 ms·

Kids respond much better to positive reinforcement than negative reinforement. The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. Just ask this of

Kids respond much better to positive reinforcement than negative reinforement. The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. Just ask this of yourself: how many of you are here because you were told to get better at computers rather than you found cmputers fun and interesting?

ekianjo 12y ago
> The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just called expectations - and settings expectations on your growth as a human being is a positive thing. Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still can't read properly ? Because that's what happening in several countries now where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a certain level to progress on the education ladder.
- amazon_not 12y ago
  > I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to > have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just > called expectations - and settings expectations on your > growth as a human being is a positive thing. We are talking about small children here. Specifically five to seven year old children being admitted to school in the Globe and mail article. Managing and setting expectations should be done age apropriately. Telling a seven year old that you are going to fail this grade unless you get so and so on an exam is far from appropriate and not a positive thing. It will most certainly instill fear and anxiety in a lot of small children. > Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still > can't read properly? Don't be silly. It's hardly an appropriate comment in any case as litteracy in Finland is at 100% in age groups 15 and older. > Because that's what happening in several countries now > where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a > certain level to progress on the education ladder. Which countries are we discussing now?
- saraid216 12y ago
  > Because that's what happening in several countries now Please list these countries.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    France, and I know that first hand from several of my friend who are educating teenagers in junior high schools. And from what i gathered from them it's not just limited to France (at least in Europe).
    - amazon_not 12y ago
      Teenagers are obviously different than small kids, but this seems to be a more systematic problem than not failing small kids when they start school. Litteracy is only 99% in France in the 15 and older group, on par with the USA. I think that we can agree on the US system being broken. Looks like France is following suit. Given that, fixing the school system in France and learning from Finland does not sound like a bad idea. Unless you have a better idea?
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        Literacy rate does not mean anything - the criteria is too low to account for the fact that most kids do not understand the words well nor master their own native language and obviously have a very hard time writing correct sentences on their own. It's not just about making kids fail indeed, but that's one factor that goes with everything else, i.e. evaluating the students less and less and making the programs lighter and lighter in order to accommodate the dropping overall level of students.
        amazon_not 12y ago
        I feel we are gettinf further and further away from the original discussion and moving the goalposts as we go along, but the key takeaway from this is that France should focus more on supporting weaker learners rather than just administer more and more tests with strict passing grades. A failing grade is pretty useless to all parties involved unless it is used to assess and correct what the underlying problem is.

ekianjo 12y ago

> The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just called expectations - and settings expectations on your growth as a human being is a positive thing. Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still can't read properly ? Because that's what happening in several countries now where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a certain level to progress on the education ladder.

amazon_not 12y ago
> I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to > have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just > called expectations - and settings expectations on your > growth as a human being is a positive thing. We are talking about small children here. Specifically five to seven year old children being admitted to school in the Globe and mail article. Managing and setting expectations should be done age apropriately. Telling a seven year old that you are going to fail this grade unless you get so and so on an exam is far from appropriate and not a positive thing. It will most certainly instill fear and anxiety in a lot of small children. > Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still > can't read properly? Don't be silly. It's hardly an appropriate comment in any case as litteracy in Finland is at 100% in age groups 15 and older. > Because that's what happening in several countries now > where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a > certain level to progress on the education ladder. Which countries are we discussing now?
saraid216 12y ago
> Because that's what happening in several countries now Please list these countries.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  France, and I know that first hand from several of my friend who are educating teenagers in junior high schools. And from what i gathered from them it's not just limited to France (at least in Europe).
  - amazon_not 12y ago
    Teenagers are obviously different than small kids, but this seems to be a more systematic problem than not failing small kids when they start school. Litteracy is only 99% in France in the 15 and older group, on par with the USA. I think that we can agree on the US system being broken. Looks like France is following suit. Given that, fixing the school system in France and learning from Finland does not sound like a bad idea. Unless you have a better idea?
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      Literacy rate does not mean anything - the criteria is too low to account for the fact that most kids do not understand the words well nor master their own native language and obviously have a very hard time writing correct sentences on their own. It's not just about making kids fail indeed, but that's one factor that goes with everything else, i.e. evaluating the students less and less and making the programs lighter and lighter in order to accommodate the dropping overall level of students.
      - amazon_not 12y ago
        I feel we are gettinf further and further away from the original discussion and moving the goalposts as we go along, but the key takeaway from this is that France should focus more on supporting weaker learners rather than just administer more and more tests with strict passing grades. A failing grade is pretty useless to all parties involved unless it is used to assess and correct what the underlying problem is.