7 ms·

They have an entirely different school system http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/why-my-children-were-lucky-to-get-accepted-to-a-finnish-sch

They have an entirely different school system http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/why-my-children-were-lucky-to-get-accepted-to-a-finnish-school-in-qatar/article20284411/?page=all http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/why-m... From that article: . kids don't go to school until age 7 . classes are 7:30-1pm with lot's of breaks . lessons only 45mins long . no standardized tests . nobody can fail . learning disability kids given custom lessons

ekianjo 12y ago
> nobody can fail I'm not sure that's a good thing.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  I've always found the pressure of exams to be motivating.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    Same here, and having "something to lose" gives you a sense of responsibility. If you can never lose, i'm not sure what message you are sending : like, being lazy and unwilling to be productive is an OK attitude ? in the end it basically defines your values as well.
    - WalterBright 12y ago
      Competition is also motivating. After all, what fun would football be if nobody kept score?
    - saraid216 12y ago
      In this case, the message you're sending is, "A human being is only as valuable as their ability to contribute." Now guess how much you contribute to the NSA's ability to prevent terrorism. (Hint: if you're unwilling, they'll extract the value from you anyways.)
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        > "A human being is only as valuable as their ability to contribute." No, that's not exactly what I am saying at all. Not just their "ability", their willingness is equally important. Even if you don't care about the outcome, the effort should be rewarded somehow. Because in real life you rarely get anything for nothing.
        saraid216 12y ago
        I didn't say that was what you were saying. I said that was the message you were sending.
      - settsu 11y ago
        "useless as you are"?
    - amazon_not 12y ago
      Kids respond much better to positive reinforcement than negative reinforement. The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. Just ask this of yourself: how many of you are here because you were told to get better at computers rather than you found cmputers fun and interesting?
      - ekianjo 12y ago
        > The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just called expectations - and settings expectations on your growth as a human being is a positive thing. Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still can't read properly ? Because that's what happening in several countries now where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a certain level to progress on the education ladder.
        amazon_not 12y ago
        > I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to > have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just > called expectations - and settings expectations on your > growth as a human being is a positive thing. We are talking about small children here. Specifically five to seven year old children being admitted to school in the Globe and mail article. Managing and setting expectations should be done age apropriately. Telling a seven year old that you are going to fail this grade unless you get so and so on an exam is far from appropriate and not a positive thing. It will most certainly instill fear and anxiety in a lot of small children. > Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still > can't read properly? Don't be silly. It's hardly an appropriate comment in any case as litteracy in Finland is at 100% in age groups 15 and older. > Because that's what happening in several countries now > where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a > certain level to progress on the education ladder. Which countries are we discussing now?
        saraid216 12y ago
        > Because that's what happening in several countries now Please list these countries.
  - amazon_not 12y ago
    We are talking about kids here. Kids should learn to learn, not learn to compete. More specifically school should educate every child, not only the top nth percentile who have the abilities and inclination to academically compete in all subject matters. School should educate children, not sort children into winners and loosers.
- pekk 12y ago
  Why should schools be in the business of deciding to help some kids and not help some other kids?
- amazon_not 12y ago
  This is not strictly speaking true. Finnish kids can and do retake years, if they are not ready to advance. Also the kids start getting traditional grades after the first few years. And, yes, it's a good thing that a child cannot fail in their first few years of school. Nobody should ever brand a child trying to learn a failure, especially not literally in their first year of education. Each child should be encouraged to learn and, if needed, helped to learn at their own pace. It is far more important that each child gets a strong foundation to learn and truly learns the basics needed to continue their education in their first years than that they get a ranking.

ekianjo 12y ago

> nobody can fail I'm not sure that's a good thing.

WalterBright 12y ago
I've always found the pressure of exams to be motivating.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  Same here, and having "something to lose" gives you a sense of responsibility. If you can never lose, i'm not sure what message you are sending : like, being lazy and unwilling to be productive is an OK attitude ? in the end it basically defines your values as well.
  - WalterBright 12y ago
    Competition is also motivating. After all, what fun would football be if nobody kept score?
  - saraid216 12y ago
    In this case, the message you're sending is, "A human being is only as valuable as their ability to contribute." Now guess how much you contribute to the NSA's ability to prevent terrorism. (Hint: if you're unwilling, they'll extract the value from you anyways.)
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > "A human being is only as valuable as their ability to contribute." No, that's not exactly what I am saying at all. Not just their "ability", their willingness is equally important. Even if you don't care about the outcome, the effort should be rewarded somehow. Because in real life you rarely get anything for nothing.
      - saraid216 12y ago
        I didn't say that was what you were saying. I said that was the message you were sending.
    - settsu 11y ago
      "useless as you are"?
  - amazon_not 12y ago
    Kids respond much better to positive reinforcement than negative reinforement. The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. Just ask this of yourself: how many of you are here because you were told to get better at computers rather than you found cmputers fun and interesting?
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      > The best values are never cultivated through fear and threats. I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just called expectations - and settings expectations on your growth as a human being is a positive thing. Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still can't read properly ? Because that's what happening in several countries now where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a certain level to progress on the education ladder.
      - amazon_not 12y ago
        > I've never considered "fear" when I was told that I got to > have more than x score to pass in next grade. That's just > called expectations - and settings expectations on your > growth as a human being is a positive thing. We are talking about small children here. Specifically five to seven year old children being admitted to school in the Globe and mail article. Managing and setting expectations should be done age apropriately. Telling a seven year old that you are going to fail this grade unless you get so and so on an exam is far from appropriate and not a positive thing. It will most certainly instill fear and anxiety in a lot of small children. > Would you think it's acceptable that a 12 years old still > can't read properly? Don't be silly. It's hardly an appropriate comment in any case as litteracy in Finland is at 100% in age groups 15 and older. > Because that's what happening in several countries now > where we have removed any barrier to ensure kids have a > certain level to progress on the education ladder. Which countries are we discussing now?
      - saraid216 12y ago
        > Because that's what happening in several countries now Please list these countries.
- amazon_not 12y ago
  We are talking about kids here. Kids should learn to learn, not learn to compete. More specifically school should educate every child, not only the top nth percentile who have the abilities and inclination to academically compete in all subject matters. School should educate children, not sort children into winners and loosers.
pekk 12y ago
Why should schools be in the business of deciding to help some kids and not help some other kids?
amazon_not 12y ago
This is not strictly speaking true. Finnish kids can and do retake years, if they are not ready to advance. Also the kids start getting traditional grades after the first few years. And, yes, it's a good thing that a child cannot fail in their first few years of school. Nobody should ever brand a child trying to learn a failure, especially not literally in their first year of education. Each child should be encouraged to learn and, if needed, helped to learn at their own pace. It is far more important that each child gets a strong foundation to learn and truly learns the basics needed to continue their education in their first years than that they get a ranking.