4 ms·

Yep, just tried it in stores a few times. Well, too bad for Apple, since I don't feel like buying a machine just for experimentation (maybe I will, sometime, bu

by listic 12y ago

Yep, just tried it in stores a few times. Well, too bad for Apple, since I don't feel like buying a machine just for experimentation (maybe I will, sometime, but I don't feel like it right now). I respect Apple's approach to design, just don't feel like it's "the right thing" for me. Linux offers much more choice, and mimicking Apple looks funny to me, but well - that's the power of choice I guess: you are free to do what you want, including acting like there's no choice, right? Right now I have a souped-up ThinkPad X200s as my main machine, which I use with an external monitor, keyboard and mouse via a docking station at home and at the office. I'm running Ubuntu, stock flavour; sure, getting used to Unity took some effort and I'm still not too happy with it, so I'm looking to other window managers, mostly tiled-based ones. Are there even alternate window managers for Mac? I doubt so; surely all Apple store staff I asked were puzzled by this. I figure if one desires to change desktop environments, then Mac is not for them.

mcintyre1994 12y ago
To be fair I doubt any powerful desktop OS (ie not Android/iOS) demos particularly well to a new user - I bet Ubuntu with Unity wouldn't, and nor would eOS, and I bet Windows 8 didn't either. I used eOS for a little bit on my old laptop and it doesn't really feel like "acting like there's no choice", it feels like choosing design. It's compatible with everything Ubuntu, you're not giving anything up. I won't disagree that OS X is probably not for you if you take advantage of Linux. But yes, there are programmes that claim to be window managers for OS X: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8768022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8768022 (HN comments for Amethyst, see the top comment for a few more)
- listic 12y ago
  > I doubt any powerful desktop OS (ie not Android/iOS) demos particularly well to a new user Definitely so. I have switched from Windows to Ubuntu not because I liked Ubuntu in store, but because I kept encountering pieces of technology that appear first and/or work better on Linux, and I knew that I have to, for a while. I chose Ubuntu because it' apparently a solid mainstream choice and self-consciously endured the accommodation. > it doesn't really feel like "acting like there's no choice" I meant Apple's style here: they seem to be eager to simplify away things, making choices for you: 'you don't want to fiddle with changing batteries on your player/phone, do you?', 'who needs extra USB's, anyway?', 'you won't need that many configuration options for a PC', 'one button should be enough' - obviously, I'm not familiar with Mac software, but I get the impression that simplification is the norm there, too; which is great if the choices they make for you are mostly the ones you would make anyway, or you don't care much. I had the impression that eOS copies their style, here. Choosing design, though, is the thing that Ubuntu really could use more of (Linux, in general, but Ubuntu seems to be the one that could potentially have resources to pull it off). I figured I could close windows with Ctrl+W: 'oh, so I can close any program with Ctrl+W instead of Alt+F4?' Nope, not just any program, e.g. not GNOME Terminal or Calculator. In Ubuntu I can start programs with 'Win+1' ... 'Win+0' shortcuts, maximize with Ctrl+Shift+Up. Not in Lubuntu/Xubuntu, it turns, out: I figure there isn't any design document for such things, spanning several official Ubuntu flavours; There isn't any reason for such things to be done differently, really.
  - mcintyre1994 12y ago
    > I meant Apple's style here Got you. eOS has a really anaemic settings gui (or did when I used it) - I get that they're still early days, it's still Ubuntu and there's probably a wealth of console and config file stuff that fills in all the gaps, but it's very lacking in that regard. It looks like the OSX settings menu but I definitely think there's more options in OSX. As for the weird keyboard shortcuts changes between Ubuntu versions, that's definitely a bit surprising. Again it's something I'm sure there's methods to change but still, something you'd expect to be standardised across the flavours.
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
> Yep, just tried it in stores a few times. I've tried OS X in stores. It's always awkward. But the same is true of Windows in stores, Android in stores, iOS in stores, or Windows on a public computer. When I tried OS X on my own machine, I quickly fell in love with it.
- listic 12y ago
  What do you love in OS X? What kind of software did you use that switching OS was no problem for you? Did anything that working differently on your previous OS annoy you at first? Some of the software I used heavily on Windows, I was very reluctant to leave behind, and still miss, years since. One could find replacement for some; use some through emulation, but some, usually the ones deeply tied to the inner workings of the OS, are either impossible to replicate/emulate or it makes no sense: the time and effort invested into skills using them goes to waste. Just one little thing: what are the shortcuts for 'Show desktop' and 'Maximize window' on a Mac? The store assistant I asked couldn't tell me (he was eager to Google, but I spared him the agony). When I asked him whether he actually uses a Mac, he said 'not really' (I guess he can't afford it). Granted, that wasn't an Apple Store (there aren't any here in Russia) but an 'official reseller', all fancy, shining and proud, which is the best you get around here. What is the reason to pay salary to such bored, pleasant and obliging young men is beyond me.
  - heliostatic 12y ago
    Show desktop: cmd-f3 Maximize: ctrl-cmd-f (in most applications) Were your questions genuine or rhetorical?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    > What do you love in OS X? Software support, graphics and audio "just work" unlike Linux, Unix-like but can also do things that aren't just development (best of both worlds vs Windows (other things only) or Linux (development only)). Also, the general look and feel is quite nice. More consistent than Windows certainly. > What kind of software did you use that switching OS was no problem for you? Well, if it runs on Windows, then it either runs on OS X or has a decent equivalent. And if it runs on Linux, it probably runs on OS X. So all the stuff I need for development ran on OS X, and most of my favourite applications ran on OS X. The few that didn't had replacements (I switched from gedit to TextMate). Crucially though, OS X let me run more than I could before, because it has far better support than Linux. > Just one little thing: what are the shortcuts for 'Show desktop' and 'Maximize window' on a Mac? F11 and I have no idea, respectively. You can look up or change keyboard shortcuts in the settings.

by listic 12y ago

mcintyre1994 12y ago

To be fair I doubt any powerful desktop OS (ie not Android/iOS) demos particularly well to a new user - I bet Ubuntu with Unity wouldn't, and nor would eOS, and I bet Windows 8 didn't either. I used eOS for a little bit on my old laptop and it doesn't really feel like "acting like there's no choice", it feels like choosing design. It's compatible with everything Ubuntu, you're not giving anything up. I won't disagree that OS X is probably not for you if you take advantage of Linux. But yes, there are programmes that claim to be window managers for OS X: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8768022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8768022 (HN comments for Amethyst, see the top comment for a few more)

listic 12y ago
> I doubt any powerful desktop OS (ie not Android/iOS) demos particularly well to a new user Definitely so. I have switched from Windows to Ubuntu not because I liked Ubuntu in store, but because I kept encountering pieces of technology that appear first and/or work better on Linux, and I knew that I have to, for a while. I chose Ubuntu because it' apparently a solid mainstream choice and self-consciously endured the accommodation. > it doesn't really feel like "acting like there's no choice" I meant Apple's style here: they seem to be eager to simplify away things, making choices for you: 'you don't want to fiddle with changing batteries on your player/phone, do you?', 'who needs extra USB's, anyway?', 'you won't need that many configuration options for a PC', 'one button should be enough' - obviously, I'm not familiar with Mac software, but I get the impression that simplification is the norm there, too; which is great if the choices they make for you are mostly the ones you would make anyway, or you don't care much. I had the impression that eOS copies their style, here. Choosing design, though, is the thing that Ubuntu really could use more of (Linux, in general, but Ubuntu seems to be the one that could potentially have resources to pull it off). I figured I could close windows with Ctrl+W: 'oh, so I can close any program with Ctrl+W instead of Alt+F4?' Nope, not just any program, e.g. not GNOME Terminal or Calculator. In Ubuntu I can start programs with 'Win+1' ... 'Win+0' shortcuts, maximize with Ctrl+Shift+Up. Not in Lubuntu/Xubuntu, it turns, out: I figure there isn't any design document for such things, spanning several official Ubuntu flavours; There isn't any reason for such things to be done differently, really.
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  > I meant Apple's style here Got you. eOS has a really anaemic settings gui (or did when I used it) - I get that they're still early days, it's still Ubuntu and there's probably a wealth of console and config file stuff that fills in all the gaps, but it's very lacking in that regard. It looks like the OSX settings menu but I definitely think there's more options in OSX. As for the weird keyboard shortcuts changes between Ubuntu versions, that's definitely a bit surprising. Again it's something I'm sure there's methods to change but still, something you'd expect to be standardised across the flavours.

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago

> Yep, just tried it in stores a few times. I've tried OS X in stores. It's always awkward. But the same is true of Windows in stores, Android in stores, iOS in stores, or Windows on a public computer. When I tried OS X on my own machine, I quickly fell in love with it.

listic 12y ago
What do you love in OS X? What kind of software did you use that switching OS was no problem for you? Did anything that working differently on your previous OS annoy you at first? Some of the software I used heavily on Windows, I was very reluctant to leave behind, and still miss, years since. One could find replacement for some; use some through emulation, but some, usually the ones deeply tied to the inner workings of the OS, are either impossible to replicate/emulate or it makes no sense: the time and effort invested into skills using them goes to waste. Just one little thing: what are the shortcuts for 'Show desktop' and 'Maximize window' on a Mac? The store assistant I asked couldn't tell me (he was eager to Google, but I spared him the agony). When I asked him whether he actually uses a Mac, he said 'not really' (I guess he can't afford it). Granted, that wasn't an Apple Store (there aren't any here in Russia) but an 'official reseller', all fancy, shining and proud, which is the best you get around here. What is the reason to pay salary to such bored, pleasant and obliging young men is beyond me.
- heliostatic 12y ago
  Show desktop: cmd-f3 Maximize: ctrl-cmd-f (in most applications) Were your questions genuine or rhetorical?
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  > What do you love in OS X? Software support, graphics and audio "just work" unlike Linux, Unix-like but can also do things that aren't just development (best of both worlds vs Windows (other things only) or Linux (development only)). Also, the general look and feel is quite nice. More consistent than Windows certainly. > What kind of software did you use that switching OS was no problem for you? Well, if it runs on Windows, then it either runs on OS X or has a decent equivalent. And if it runs on Linux, it probably runs on OS X. So all the stuff I need for development ran on OS X, and most of my favourite applications ran on OS X. The few that didn't had replacements (I switched from gedit to TextMate). Crucially though, OS X let me run more than I could before, because it has far better support than Linux. > Just one little thing: what are the shortcuts for 'Show desktop' and 'Maximize window' on a Mac? F11 and I have no idea, respectively. You can look up or change keyboard shortcuts in the settings.