12 ms·

Apple becomes top phone maker by profits (beating Nokia, etc)

52 points by swombat 17y ago

swombat 17y ago
Amazing considering they're less than 3 years into the iPhone's life. Just staggering. If anyone had predicted, when the iPhone was announced, that within 3 years Apple would be making the largest profits of any phone-maker, they would have been laughed out of the room.
- gaius 17y ago
  Same as if you'd said Apple was getting into the music retail business.
  - raganwald 17y ago
    Same as if you said that Apple would have the largest profit share of any PC manufacturer. It's all about the margins, and now when someone says Apple's market share is marginal, we know what that word means.
- danek 17y ago
  So much for all the analysts on Wall Street that predicted doom. As a shareholder, I've learned to ignore everything the "experts" say about Apple.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- jsz0 17y ago
  Even more amazing when you consider Apple has been artificially limiting themselves to only one carrier in the US. If they had launched a CDMA & GSM iPhone at the same time I don't think it's crazy to speculate their market-share could easily be 10% higher right now.
  - macrael 17y ago
    Maybe a little crazy. 1. By locking in with a&tt they got concessions that Verizon was not willing to grant, which must have had some effect on the phone's popularity. (Visual voice mail, no carrier mark on the phone, a very good subsidy (though, initially, no subsidy)...) 2. By only targeting GSM, they drastically simplified the engineering required for the device. The recent comments from an anonymous engineer on the Pink project made it clear that targeting both GSM and CDMA was a huge mistake for them. My understanding is that the two radios are not simply interchangeable. Building an iPhone for both would have required coming up with two radically different internal designs. This would have required engineering hours which would likely have delayed the phone. (or the 3g, or the 3gs) And that delay would naturally have cost market share. So, it is pretty hard to say what would be different if Apple had a phone that ran on other carriers. And, it is a two way street, it sure doesn't look like Verizon plans on having the iPhone any time soon.
putitin 17y ago
My mom always said they would. Of course, she also said, "Put it in my anus!"
- ironkeith 17y ago
  Is that a meme I don't know, or did you accidentally post to the way wrong site?
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - ironkeith 17y ago
    Funny, prior to the parent post (which was really bad) being deleted, I had plus 2 karma here. Now I have minus two. I wonder if people don't get that I'm replying to a deleted comment and not the submission.
nimbix 17y ago
I just went to Nokia's regional site for my country and the products page there lists - get this - 135 different phone models!! How does something like this happen? And I have absolutely no idea what the features on any of them are. How am I supposed to pick one?
- jagjit 17y ago
  Are you complaining about choice? I just checked out their US site and it is pretty straight forward to search based on features etc. I can understand finding faults with Nokia for not being able to compete effectively against iPhone. But then which other mobile maker is right now able to do that. iPhone is pretty much a new product category. And Apple gets consumers and software like few others. But I cannot understand finding faults with the choice of phones Nokia provides.
  - ohhmaagawd 17y ago
    Too much choice is overwhelming and confusing. This has been observed many times. Search google on "psychology too many choices". http://www.physorg.com/news127404469.html http://www.physorg.com/news127404469.html Not to mention having dozens of models shows a lack of focus.
    - pstuart 17y ago
      For example, Apple's product line prior to the return of Steve Jobs.
  - nimbix 17y ago
    Yes, I'm complaining about choice. I used the filters on the left and was still left with 28 phones to choose from. I'm sorry, but I'm just not willing to put any serious effort into comparing 28 different models that I know nothing about when their competition makes it so much easier not to screw up.
    - jagjit 17y ago
      I agree choice can be confusing. And that is why Apple products standout. Maybe I should have clarified what I like about choice in phones that Nokia or others provide. One aspect of choice which I like is the different pricing options. The mobile phones are needed by people all over the world with varying purchasing powers. Everybody cannot or does not want to afford the total cost of ownership of iPhone or even Nokia N97 or Droid. But there are billions who want to make phone calls.
dschobel 17y ago
This is all the more amazing since they have one super-high end product vs the balanced product portfolio of Nokia. You'd have to imagine this makes Apple's position a bit tenuous.
- unalone 17y ago
  Really? I'd argue the opposite. I argued the opposite last year, when everybody said that Apple's focusing on the high end would crash them during the recession. Apple focuses on quality, and charges decently for what they offer, I bought this computer a year ago, and it's still performing splendidly, and I expect it to continue for a long while. Meanwhile, the people I know who are looking for computers are thinking more and more about the low-end Macs, because while they're expensive, they're not computers you'll have to replace any time soon. If you only have a little money, you make sure it goes to something really good instead of to waste. Apple's position is only tenuous if you think another company can make a better phone and price it more cheaply. I think neither will happen.
  - dschobel 17y ago
    The $999 macbook is an example of exactly the sort of downward market movement which I'm speaking about.
    - unalone 17y ago
      You mentioned no downward market movement whatsoever. Reread your comment.
      - dschobel 17y ago
        The reasonably rational person would infer from my comparison of Apple's two high-end product offerings vs Nokia's balanced offering and my saying that the former leads to a more tenuous market position that the intent was clearly to advocate introducing a lower-end unit with a cheaper data plan (the analogue to the $999 macbook).
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

52 points by swombat 17y ago

Amazing considering they're less than 3 years into the iPhone's life. Just staggering. If anyone had predicted, when the iPhone was announced, that within 3 years Apple would be making the largest profits of any phone-maker, they would have been laughed out of the room.

gaius 17y ago
Same as if you'd said Apple was getting into the music retail business.
- raganwald 17y ago
  Same as if you said that Apple would have the largest profit share of any PC manufacturer. It's all about the margins, and now when someone says Apple's market share is marginal, we know what that word means.
danek 17y ago
So much for all the analysts on Wall Street that predicted doom. As a shareholder, I've learned to ignore everything the "experts" say about Apple.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
jsz0 17y ago
Even more amazing when you consider Apple has been artificially limiting themselves to only one carrier in the US. If they had launched a CDMA & GSM iPhone at the same time I don't think it's crazy to speculate their market-share could easily be 10% higher right now.
- macrael 17y ago
  Maybe a little crazy. 1. By locking in with a&tt they got concessions that Verizon was not willing to grant, which must have had some effect on the phone's popularity. (Visual voice mail, no carrier mark on the phone, a very good subsidy (though, initially, no subsidy)...) 2. By only targeting GSM, they drastically simplified the engineering required for the device. The recent comments from an anonymous engineer on the Pink project made it clear that targeting both GSM and CDMA was a huge mistake for them. My understanding is that the two radios are not simply interchangeable. Building an iPhone for both would have required coming up with two radically different internal designs. This would have required engineering hours which would likely have delayed the phone. (or the 3g, or the 3gs) And that delay would naturally have cost market share. So, it is pretty hard to say what would be different if Apple had a phone that ran on other carriers. And, it is a two way street, it sure doesn't look like Verizon plans on having the iPhone any time soon.

putitin 17y ago

My mom always said they would. Of course, she also said, "Put it in my anus!"

ironkeith 17y ago
Is that a meme I don't know, or did you accidentally post to the way wrong site?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- ironkeith 17y ago
  Funny, prior to the parent post (which was really bad) being deleted, I had plus 2 karma here. Now I have minus two. I wonder if people don't get that I'm replying to a deleted comment and not the submission.

nimbix 17y ago

I just went to Nokia's regional site for my country and the products page there lists - get this - 135 different phone models!! How does something like this happen? And I have absolutely no idea what the features on any of them are. How am I supposed to pick one?

jagjit 17y ago
Are you complaining about choice? I just checked out their US site and it is pretty straight forward to search based on features etc. I can understand finding faults with Nokia for not being able to compete effectively against iPhone. But then which other mobile maker is right now able to do that. iPhone is pretty much a new product category. And Apple gets consumers and software like few others. But I cannot understand finding faults with the choice of phones Nokia provides.
- ohhmaagawd 17y ago
  Too much choice is overwhelming and confusing. This has been observed many times. Search google on "psychology too many choices". http://www.physorg.com/news127404469.html http://www.physorg.com/news127404469.html Not to mention having dozens of models shows a lack of focus.
  - pstuart 17y ago
    For example, Apple's product line prior to the return of Steve Jobs.
- nimbix 17y ago
  Yes, I'm complaining about choice. I used the filters on the left and was still left with 28 phones to choose from. I'm sorry, but I'm just not willing to put any serious effort into comparing 28 different models that I know nothing about when their competition makes it so much easier not to screw up.
  - jagjit 17y ago
    I agree choice can be confusing. And that is why Apple products standout. Maybe I should have clarified what I like about choice in phones that Nokia or others provide. One aspect of choice which I like is the different pricing options. The mobile phones are needed by people all over the world with varying purchasing powers. Everybody cannot or does not want to afford the total cost of ownership of iPhone or even Nokia N97 or Droid. But there are billions who want to make phone calls.

dschobel 17y ago

This is all the more amazing since they have one super-high end product vs the balanced product portfolio of Nokia. You'd have to imagine this makes Apple's position a bit tenuous.

unalone 17y ago
Really? I'd argue the opposite. I argued the opposite last year, when everybody said that Apple's focusing on the high end would crash them during the recession. Apple focuses on quality, and charges decently for what they offer, I bought this computer a year ago, and it's still performing splendidly, and I expect it to continue for a long while. Meanwhile, the people I know who are looking for computers are thinking more and more about the low-end Macs, because while they're expensive, they're not computers you'll have to replace any time soon. If you only have a little money, you make sure it goes to something really good instead of to waste. Apple's position is only tenuous if you think another company can make a better phone and price it more cheaply. I think neither will happen.
- dschobel 17y ago
  The $999 macbook is an example of exactly the sort of downward market movement which I'm speaking about.
  - unalone 17y ago
    You mentioned no downward market movement whatsoever. Reread your comment.
    - dschobel 17y ago
      The reasonably rational person would infer from my comparison of Apple's two high-end product offerings vs Nokia's balanced offering and my saying that the former leads to a more tenuous market position that the intent was clearly to advocate introducing a lower-end unit with a cheaper data plan (the analogue to the $999 macbook).

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]