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There is much emphasis on teaching kids computer and math related subjects these days. Although it is exciting to see educational initiatives like these, they

by raldu 12y ago

There is much emphasis on teaching kids computer and math related subjects these days. Although it is exciting to see educational initiatives like these, they might actually be motivated by economical and institutional needs rather than taking into account individual interests of children. A shortage of computer programmers emerges and there is instantly an interest to teach children graph theory... Math is not the only thing that is interesting. Why not have, "critical thinking for kids", or "composition for kids", "cinema for kids", "creativity for kids", or something else? A great deal of other skills and literacies are left out just for the sake of meeting the industrial "demand".

j2kun 12y ago
Graph theory is not a subject taught solely for computer science. In fact, graph theory has a rich mathematical history independent of computer science, even through today. The reason graph theory (and mathematics in general) is nice to teach is that it includes "critical thinking" and "composition" and "creativity," it's arguably the most efficient, direct way to teach these skills, and all you need is the knowledge to teach it and a writing utensil.
Crito 12y ago
That's a bit cynical. I think at least a large portion of it is that people tend to believe that whatever skill sets they have are important. So a plumber thinks that basic plumbing knowledge is something everyone should have. Chefs think that everyone should be able to cook the basics. Programmers think that programming is valuable knowledge that everyone should have some familiarity with. If confronted with this, all of them will be able to rattle out perfectly rational arguments in defense of their positions. They aren't wrong. It is just that what they prioritize or think about most often is influenced by what they know and do. Basic plumbing knowledge is useful for anyone who owns a home (or just uses a toilet, sink, or shower), but how often do you see chefs advocating for that sort of practical education? Being able to cook a nice meal for friends or family is a great skill with a lot of social value, and cooking your own food can be very economical, but how often do plumbers advocate for that? We see a lot of people advocating for tech education and extolling the virtues of tech knowledge because we surround ourselves with people who are already in this field. This said, I think there is some truth in what you say. I get pretty suspicious when I see national campaigns for tech education being pushed by the elite. Business leaders or politicians; people who have made something other than programming their profession. Maybe there is a plumbing equivalent of things like code.org, but if so I am not aware of it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
marincounty 12y ago
No, I think math is very important. There are a few subjects I wish I was taught in high school though. 1.The scientific method(I can see young eyes rolling already though) 2. The Placebo effect 3. Basic statistics(with an emphasis on how adults often use statistics to deceive) 4. Basic course in Psychology(I don't recall if my high school had any psychology courses. In College, I had a great Psychology instructor. His course covered every thing I listed. When I look back at college, I can honestly state he changed the way I viewed to world. I remember thinking, I wish I had this information in HS. He was a great teacher.)
- octatoan 12y ago
  And that correlation does not imply causation.
tjl 12y ago
Graph Theory is pretty widely applicable. It's been a core course in my undergraduate program for years (I think since the beginning of the program). For example, you can apply it to a number of different domains in physics. It can be used to analyze electrical circuits, pipe flow, and mechanics. It's at the core of a number of packages related to these topics. The circuit simulator SPICE uses graph theory as does Modelica and MapleSim. That's only the physics applications. I've read papers that use graph theory in a lot of domains. There was a good book I used as reference when I looked at using graph theory for CAD (as part of an undergrad project), but I don't recall it as that was years ago. I very likely would have done a graduate degree under a professor studying graph theory (he was my 4th year project supervisor), but he died over New Year's that year and I had to change supervisors for my last four months. But, he was the reason I decided to go to grad school in the first place.

by raldu 12y ago

j2kun 12y ago

Graph theory is not a subject taught solely for computer science. In fact, graph theory has a rich mathematical history independent of computer science, even through today. The reason graph theory (and mathematics in general) is nice to teach is that it includes "critical thinking" and "composition" and "creativity," it's arguably the most efficient, direct way to teach these skills, and all you need is the knowledge to teach it and a writing utensil.

Crito 12y ago

That's a bit cynical. I think at least a large portion of it is that people tend to believe that whatever skill sets they have are important. So a plumber thinks that basic plumbing knowledge is something everyone should have. Chefs think that everyone should be able to cook the basics. Programmers think that programming is valuable knowledge that everyone should have some familiarity with. If confronted with this, all of them will be able to rattle out perfectly rational arguments in defense of their positions. They aren't wrong. It is just that what they prioritize or think about most often is influenced by what they know and do. Basic plumbing knowledge is useful for anyone who owns a home (or just uses a toilet, sink, or shower), but how often do you see chefs advocating for that sort of practical education? Being able to cook a nice meal for friends or family is a great skill with a lot of social value, and cooking your own food can be very economical, but how often do plumbers advocate for that? We see a lot of people advocating for tech education and extolling the virtues of tech knowledge because we surround ourselves with people who are already in this field. This said, I think there is some truth in what you say. I get pretty suspicious when I see national campaigns for tech education being pushed by the elite. Business leaders or politicians; people who have made something other than programming their profession. Maybe there is a plumbing equivalent of things like code.org, but if so I am not aware of it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

marincounty 12y ago

No, I think math is very important. There are a few subjects I wish I was taught in high school though. 1.The scientific method(I can see young eyes rolling already though) 2. The Placebo effect 3. Basic statistics(with an emphasis on how adults often use statistics to deceive) 4. Basic course in Psychology(I don't recall if my high school had any psychology courses. In College, I had a great Psychology instructor. His course covered every thing I listed. When I look back at college, I can honestly state he changed the way I viewed to world. I remember thinking, I wish I had this information in HS. He was a great teacher.)

octatoan 12y ago
And that correlation does not imply causation.

tjl 12y ago

Graph Theory is pretty widely applicable. It's been a core course in my undergraduate program for years (I think since the beginning of the program). For example, you can apply it to a number of different domains in physics. It can be used to analyze electrical circuits, pipe flow, and mechanics. It's at the core of a number of packages related to these topics. The circuit simulator SPICE uses graph theory as does Modelica and MapleSim. That's only the physics applications. I've read papers that use graph theory in a lot of domains. There was a good book I used as reference when I looked at using graph theory for CAD (as part of an undergrad project), but I don't recall it as that was years ago. I very likely would have done a graduate degree under a professor studying graph theory (he was my 4th year project supervisor), but he died over New Year's that year and I had to change supervisors for my last four months. But, he was the reason I decided to go to grad school in the first place.