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So rather than a basic gripper, you would rather have a 'untrained' person start with deadlift? Deadlifting is one of the most complex weight lifting movements

So rather than a basic gripper, you would rather have a 'untrained' person start with deadlift? Deadlifting is one of the most complex weight lifting movements there is.[0] I know its tempting to defend beliefs and I like Rippetoe as well. I have done starting strength. My point is just be open enough to listen to Pavels ideas. For Pavel its not about building muscle and adding weight, for Rippetoe it is. And there is a big difference. Pavel is talking purely about strength. Not adding to the engine, just making it run optimally. [0] From Pavel on podcast listed in above comment.

totalrobe 12y ago
Deadlift is not complex. Stand close to the bar, bend over and pick up the weight with your back flat. Press, clean and jerk, and snatch are certainly complex, but deadlift not so much. Turkish getups are a great way for a beginner to drop a kettlebell on their head. From my experience being a gym rat, a majority of beginners have decent deadlift form with minimal training.
- ccameron 12y ago
  I think you are underestimating how easy it is to get injured while performing the deadlift with improper technique. Naturally with little weight the technique isn't as critical, but load the bar and it's an entirely different story. I think the squat is on par in technicality, which lift is more technical I think is irrelevant.
  - totalrobe 12y ago
    For overall strength gains, deadlift is a key exercise. Of course proper progression is key.
mindcruzer 12y ago
Deadlift is not one of the most complex weightlifting movements. As far as weightlifting movements, it's quite simple--the only trick being keeping your spine neutral. A proper squat is harder to execute than a proper deadlift. Also, starting people with deadlifts is fine, as long as you keep the weight low. Not to mention that if you had to choose, deadlifts would do a lot more for you than turkish get ups (which I've honestly never even heard of until now, and I've been a serious weightlifter for years).
- eru 12y ago
  Turkish getups are fun, train a lot of muscles and are easy to progress with early on. They are an excellent addition to deadlifts, not a replacement. (I often do them as a general warmup before the `main' lifts.)
jclos 12y ago
"Deadlifting is one of the most complex weight lifting movements there is." I don't particularly like Rip's methodology, but I don't agree. Deadlifting is pretty much the simplest movement there is - it is nothing more than picking something (which was specifically designed to be picked up) up from the floor and standing with it. It is the same basic movement pattern than the one-armed swing you advised (hip hinge) but with no ballistic component. I can't say which is safer, but anybody can pick up the correct movement in a few hours of training and it is definitely not more complicated than a kettlebell swing.

totalrobe 12y ago

Deadlift is not complex. Stand close to the bar, bend over and pick up the weight with your back flat. Press, clean and jerk, and snatch are certainly complex, but deadlift not so much. Turkish getups are a great way for a beginner to drop a kettlebell on their head. From my experience being a gym rat, a majority of beginners have decent deadlift form with minimal training.

ccameron 12y ago
I think you are underestimating how easy it is to get injured while performing the deadlift with improper technique. Naturally with little weight the technique isn't as critical, but load the bar and it's an entirely different story. I think the squat is on par in technicality, which lift is more technical I think is irrelevant.
- totalrobe 12y ago
  For overall strength gains, deadlift is a key exercise. Of course proper progression is key.

mindcruzer 12y ago

Deadlift is not one of the most complex weightlifting movements. As far as weightlifting movements, it's quite simple--the only trick being keeping your spine neutral. A proper squat is harder to execute than a proper deadlift. Also, starting people with deadlifts is fine, as long as you keep the weight low. Not to mention that if you had to choose, deadlifts would do a lot more for you than turkish get ups (which I've honestly never even heard of until now, and I've been a serious weightlifter for years).

eru 12y ago
Turkish getups are fun, train a lot of muscles and are easy to progress with early on. They are an excellent addition to deadlifts, not a replacement. (I often do them as a general warmup before the `main' lifts.)

jclos 12y ago

"Deadlifting is one of the most complex weight lifting movements there is." I don't particularly like Rip's methodology, but I don't agree. Deadlifting is pretty much the simplest movement there is - it is nothing more than picking something (which was specifically designed to be picked up) up from the floor and standing with it. It is the same basic movement pattern than the one-armed swing you advised (hip hinge) but with no ballistic component. I can't say which is safer, but anybody can pick up the correct movement in a few hours of training and it is definitely not more complicated than a kettlebell swing.