4 ms·

> Provide good school food, provide homework assistance, provide school buildings with low noise levels, provide working ventilation to lower classroom CO2 leve

> Provide good school food, provide homework assistance, provide school buildings with low noise levels, provide working ventilation to lower classroom CO2 levels, make sure buildings are not fungus-infected ... Any reason to believe any of this helps, other than 'common sense'? The problem with the achievement gap is trying to pretend there's no inborn ability. There's always going to be an achievement gap. The schools should focus on marginal improvement, not average stats.

1stop 12y ago
There were comprehensive studies done by education evaluation experts. Their recommendations (like those listed in the GP) were completely ignored because of funding and politics... The meta-problem with schools is you have amateur policy makers (aka Politicians) making decisions based on voting outcomes, rather than expert policy makers making decisions based on student outcomes. There isn't always going to be an achievement gap. Look at japan's literacy stats...
biehl 12y ago
> Any reason to believe any of this helps, other than 'common sense'? LMGTFY? > The problem with the achievement gap is trying to pretend there's no inborn ability. There's always going to be an achievement gap. The schools should focus on marginal improvement, not average stats. I don't think anyone is pretending that there is no natural variation in ability - however, the natural variation seems like a poor excuse for bad food and fungus-ridden schools?
- DanBC 12y ago
  > LMGTFY? You made the claim. Do you have anything to support it?
  - 1stop 12y ago
    You made a similarly unsupported claim about genes being the dominant factor. Care to provide a source for that?
    - doktrin 12y ago
      are you responding to the right poster?
    - DanBC 12y ago
      No, I didn't.
  - biehl 12y ago
    Sorry the question was 'any reason ... ?' and searching on google will quickly verify that there is not only some reason but more than that.
    - Anderkent 12y ago
      Well, no it doesn't. For example searching for 'healthy school food lifetime outcomes' on google scholar brings up one clearly related study [1], but it's paywalled. It's also about the UK, not US. And having found the study elsewhere [2] finds that many of their claimed benefits are only significant at the p<0.1 level, which, really. It seems you expect me to spend 20 minutes validating each of your claims for you. I'm not going to produce your argument for you; if it's only your cached thought then just say so, it's fair enough. If you actually have studies backing your belief, it shouldn't be that hard for you to cite them. 1. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629611000270 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629611... 2. https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/files/iser_working_papers/2009-01.pdf https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/files/iser_working_papers/2009-...
kaitai 12y ago
Fungus-infected schools: I am so much smarter when I can breathe! Not kidding; from experience. There are a number of studies showing the physical activity and good nutrition improve school performance. You can start here for nutrition studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336680); http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336680); the citations are also informative, as usual. Pretending there is no inborn ability gap is unnecessary when we have conclusively demonstrated that we can create gaps through environment. (Just put a poor kid in a rich school and their performance goes up dramatically, and put a middle-class kid in a poor school and their performance goes down.) It is irresponsible and not scientifically or rationally defensible to just throw up your hands and say poor kids are born dumb, so it's reasonable to have a 62% high school graduation rate in DC and an 85% rate in Massachusetts [1]. Average stats are a fine place to start to identify blatant differences in outcome. We're not at the point where inborn ability is making a big difference, honestly. [1] http://www.governing.com/gov-data/high-school-graduation-rates-by-state.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/high-school-graduation-rat...

1stop 12y ago

There were comprehensive studies done by education evaluation experts. Their recommendations (like those listed in the GP) were completely ignored because of funding and politics... The meta-problem with schools is you have amateur policy makers (aka Politicians) making decisions based on voting outcomes, rather than expert policy makers making decisions based on student outcomes. There isn't always going to be an achievement gap. Look at japan's literacy stats...

biehl 12y ago

> Any reason to believe any of this helps, other than 'common sense'? LMGTFY? > The problem with the achievement gap is trying to pretend there's no inborn ability. There's always going to be an achievement gap. The schools should focus on marginal improvement, not average stats. I don't think anyone is pretending that there is no natural variation in ability - however, the natural variation seems like a poor excuse for bad food and fungus-ridden schools?

DanBC 12y ago
> LMGTFY? You made the claim. Do you have anything to support it?
- 1stop 12y ago
  You made a similarly unsupported claim about genes being the dominant factor. Care to provide a source for that?
  - doktrin 12y ago
    are you responding to the right poster?
  - DanBC 12y ago
    No, I didn't.
- biehl 12y ago
  Sorry the question was 'any reason ... ?' and searching on google will quickly verify that there is not only some reason but more than that.
  - Anderkent 12y ago
    Well, no it doesn't. For example searching for 'healthy school food lifetime outcomes' on google scholar brings up one clearly related study [1], but it's paywalled. It's also about the UK, not US. And having found the study elsewhere [2] finds that many of their claimed benefits are only significant at the p<0.1 level, which, really. It seems you expect me to spend 20 minutes validating each of your claims for you. I'm not going to produce your argument for you; if it's only your cached thought then just say so, it's fair enough. If you actually have studies backing your belief, it shouldn't be that hard for you to cite them. 1. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629611000270 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167629611... 2. https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/files/iser_working_papers/2009-01.pdf https://www.iser.essex.ac.uk/files/iser_working_papers/2009-...

kaitai 12y ago

Fungus-infected schools: I am so much smarter when I can breathe! Not kidding; from experience. There are a number of studies showing the physical activity and good nutrition improve school performance. You can start here for nutrition studies (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336680); http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18336680); the citations are also informative, as usual. Pretending there is no inborn ability gap is unnecessary when we have conclusively demonstrated that we can create gaps through environment. (Just put a poor kid in a rich school and their performance goes up dramatically, and put a middle-class kid in a poor school and their performance goes down.) It is irresponsible and not scientifically or rationally defensible to just throw up your hands and say poor kids are born dumb, so it's reasonable to have a 62% high school graduation rate in DC and an 85% rate in Massachusetts [1]. Average stats are a fine place to start to identify blatant differences in outcome. We're not at the point where inborn ability is making a big difference, honestly. [1] http://www.governing.com/gov-data/high-school-graduation-rates-by-state.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/high-school-graduation-rat...