5 ms·

So sugar is good again?

orbitur 12y ago
If you read the article, there's no such claim. Just that artificial sweeteners appear to change gut bacteria in a way that sugar doesn't.
ethanbond 12y ago
> Methadone is really harmful. > So heroin is back in? Evidently, both are bad and it doesn't seem to be immediately clear whether real sugar or artificial is more harmful. But we do know for a fact that excess carbohydrate intake causes numerous serious health problems (heart problems, obesity, diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc).
- __david__ 12y ago
  Which is depressing because carbohydrates are so tasty. It's all I can do to resist them.
  - Zelphyr 12y ago
    Same here though I've heard that with carbs and sugar, after a week or two without you find you don't crave them anymore. "I've heard" because I've not yet been able to attempt that particular experiment. :)
    - ethanbond 12y ago
      I've been doing low-carb (to varying degrees) for about 4 years now and love it. I used to be all about potatoes, bread, pasta, milk, etc. Never big on sweets, but the complex carbs... oh yes. Once I almost hit 200lb at 17-ish I decided to cut carbs (/r/keto) and it worked wonders. I was down to about 150 (a healthy weight for my size) in about a year, but the weight loss is asymptotic. I lost like 10 pounds in my first two weeks, but it took me another 8-9 months to lose the other 40. The first week or two are somewhat hellish for some people because you're essentially going through a withdrawal. It's nearly identical in mechanism and symptoms of a drug withdrawal. If anything, that should underline how detrimental regular excess carb intake can be. What's even worse than the normal "withdrawals," though, is when you cheat. When I first went to college I ate an absurd amount of carbs for a rush event (aka fun/eating challenge) and literally fell asleep at the table. Then I felt like shit for the next 3 days. That was my last time cheating :) You're absolutely right, though, after the first 1-3 weeks, your cravings stop, headaches stop, brain fog clears, you sleep amazingly, feel energized, and don't even notice the dessert menu. It's fascinating and I highly recommend it. You may hate it, you may love it. It has benefitted me in a lot of ways, and it continues to even as I somewhat elevate my carb intake in order to work out effectively.
  - ethanbond 12y ago
    Try going low carb for a month. There are amazing low carb foods too. Like steak. And bacon. And cheese.
- DanBC 12y ago
  >But we do know for a fact that excess carbohydrate intake causes numerous serious health problems [...] Alzheimer's, Do we know that for a fact? Definitely?
  - ccallebs 12y ago
    Of course not. But there are varying degrees of evidence supporting the idea that consuming excess carbohydrates (and more specifically, "simple" carbohydrates) contributes to a wide array of health issues. We know consuming excess carbohydrates is bad for you the same way we know that climate change is happening. The same way we know that a sedentary lifestyle is detrimental to your health. The same way we know that smoking causes lung cancer and a cornucopia of other health concerns. Science rarely affords us the ability to make absolute statements.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      I fully agree that sugar is harmful. Parent post said "we know for a fact" that excess carbs cause alzheimers, and it is this specific strong claim that I'm challenging. I'm not even asking for "know for a fact". "Most researchers agree" will do. Sugar causes overweight; but people who are overweight might be less likely to get alzheimers than people who are thin. Today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32233571 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32233571 > Being overweight cuts the risk of dementia, according to the largest and most precise investigation into the relationship. (Researchers who found this are cautious, saying this is just one study and that it conflicts with other research). But in 2011: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13213755 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13213755 > Middle aged people who are overweight but not obese, are 71% more likely to develop dementia than those with a normal weight, according to research. And confusingly in 2009 we thought that rapid weight loss might be an early sign of dementia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8055030.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8055030.stm > Researchers have produced more evidence that rapid weight loss in old age may be a early warning sign of dementia.
  - ethanbond 12y ago
    Well, it depends on your definition of fact. So far it's a fairly well supported and entirely non-refuted hypothesis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082091 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082091
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  OT: Heroin can actually be safer, due to the long onset and long lasting effects of methadone. Methadone can take several hours to kick in, leading patients to think they might not have taken enough, and take some more. It also lasts much longer than Heroin. 3x10mg methadone pills may be enough to cause an overdose in a naive patient. Given the long times involved, this isn't an unrealistic scenario. Whereas with Heroin, a: oral bioavailability is rather low, and b: action happens faster, thus an OD is less likely. (Not true for IV usage, but hopefully such patients exercise more caution in the first place, reality excepted.) And both aren't really "bad" for you, as far as long-term medicines go. The side effect profile is positively tame compared to other commonly accepted medicines such as anti-depressants or mood stabilizers.
zamalek 12y ago
Given that "sweetness" is provided by sugar? Personally I've completely eliminated added salt and everything is now tasty as it was when I added salt - my taste has recovered from the over-stimulation. I can't imagine that added salt (or sweetener) is any different.
Filligree 12y ago
No, sugar is bad. It's just that other sweeteners are also bad. Solution: Stop sweetening everything.

If you read the article, there's no such claim. Just that artificial sweeteners appear to change gut bacteria in a way that sugar doesn't.

ethanbond 12y ago

> Methadone is really harmful. > So heroin is back in? Evidently, both are bad and it doesn't seem to be immediately clear whether real sugar or artificial is more harmful. But we do know for a fact that excess carbohydrate intake causes numerous serious health problems (heart problems, obesity, diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc).

__david__ 12y ago
Which is depressing because carbohydrates are so tasty. It's all I can do to resist them.
- Zelphyr 12y ago
  Same here though I've heard that with carbs and sugar, after a week or two without you find you don't crave them anymore. "I've heard" because I've not yet been able to attempt that particular experiment. :)
  - ethanbond 12y ago
    I've been doing low-carb (to varying degrees) for about 4 years now and love it. I used to be all about potatoes, bread, pasta, milk, etc. Never big on sweets, but the complex carbs... oh yes. Once I almost hit 200lb at 17-ish I decided to cut carbs (/r/keto) and it worked wonders. I was down to about 150 (a healthy weight for my size) in about a year, but the weight loss is asymptotic. I lost like 10 pounds in my first two weeks, but it took me another 8-9 months to lose the other 40. The first week or two are somewhat hellish for some people because you're essentially going through a withdrawal. It's nearly identical in mechanism and symptoms of a drug withdrawal. If anything, that should underline how detrimental regular excess carb intake can be. What's even worse than the normal "withdrawals," though, is when you cheat. When I first went to college I ate an absurd amount of carbs for a rush event (aka fun/eating challenge) and literally fell asleep at the table. Then I felt like shit for the next 3 days. That was my last time cheating :) You're absolutely right, though, after the first 1-3 weeks, your cravings stop, headaches stop, brain fog clears, you sleep amazingly, feel energized, and don't even notice the dessert menu. It's fascinating and I highly recommend it. You may hate it, you may love it. It has benefitted me in a lot of ways, and it continues to even as I somewhat elevate my carb intake in order to work out effectively.
- ethanbond 12y ago
  Try going low carb for a month. There are amazing low carb foods too. Like steak. And bacon. And cheese.
DanBC 12y ago
>But we do know for a fact that excess carbohydrate intake causes numerous serious health problems [...] Alzheimer's, Do we know that for a fact? Definitely?
- ccallebs 12y ago
  Of course not. But there are varying degrees of evidence supporting the idea that consuming excess carbohydrates (and more specifically, "simple" carbohydrates) contributes to a wide array of health issues. We know consuming excess carbohydrates is bad for you the same way we know that climate change is happening. The same way we know that a sedentary lifestyle is detrimental to your health. The same way we know that smoking causes lung cancer and a cornucopia of other health concerns. Science rarely affords us the ability to make absolute statements.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I fully agree that sugar is harmful. Parent post said "we know for a fact" that excess carbs cause alzheimers, and it is this specific strong claim that I'm challenging. I'm not even asking for "know for a fact". "Most researchers agree" will do. Sugar causes overweight; but people who are overweight might be less likely to get alzheimers than people who are thin. Today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32233571 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32233571 > Being overweight cuts the risk of dementia, according to the largest and most precise investigation into the relationship. (Researchers who found this are cautious, saying this is just one study and that it conflicts with other research). But in 2011: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13213755 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13213755 > Middle aged people who are overweight but not obese, are 71% more likely to develop dementia than those with a normal weight, according to research. And confusingly in 2009 we thought that rapid weight loss might be an early sign of dementia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8055030.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8055030.stm > Researchers have produced more evidence that rapid weight loss in old age may be a early warning sign of dementia.
- ethanbond 12y ago
  Well, it depends on your definition of fact. So far it's a fairly well supported and entirely non-refuted hypothesis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082091 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15082091
MichaelGG 12y ago
OT: Heroin can actually be safer, due to the long onset and long lasting effects of methadone. Methadone can take several hours to kick in, leading patients to think they might not have taken enough, and take some more. It also lasts much longer than Heroin. 3x10mg methadone pills may be enough to cause an overdose in a naive patient. Given the long times involved, this isn't an unrealistic scenario. Whereas with Heroin, a: oral bioavailability is rather low, and b: action happens faster, thus an OD is less likely. (Not true for IV usage, but hopefully such patients exercise more caution in the first place, reality excepted.) And both aren't really "bad" for you, as far as long-term medicines go. The side effect profile is positively tame compared to other commonly accepted medicines such as anti-depressants or mood stabilizers.

zamalek 12y ago

Given that "sweetness" is provided by sugar? Personally I've completely eliminated added salt and everything is now tasty as it was when I added salt - my taste has recovered from the over-stimulation. I can't imagine that added salt (or sweetener) is any different.

Filligree 12y ago

No, sugar is bad. It's just that other sweeteners are also bad. Solution: Stop sweetening everything.