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I studied physics in college. This is how we talked about it there too: "The electron wants to find a positive charge", "the wire wants to rotate as it moves th

I studied physics in college. This is how we talked about it there too: "The electron wants to find a positive charge", "the wire wants to rotate as it moves through the field", "the system wants to find its lowest energy state". The chemistry department that I worked with (my research was in quantum magnetism, which sounds cooler than it is) used the same style: "the free radical wants to find a pair". I don't think there's anything wrong with this language. The problem usually is people who don't know what they are talking about misinterpreting it as though atoms/molecules/cells/etc. have feelings.

ars 12y ago
There's a difference between deterministic actions like an electron, and random events. Using that language with events that always happen doesn't lead to problems. But as soon as you use it with events that only happen sometimes you cause your thinking to be skewed. There is also a difference with complexity level - using "want" for single step events is not the same as using it with multi-step complex events, that only as a final result "want" something. Doing that leads you to personify the system. > The problem usually is people who don't know what they are talking about misinterpreting it as though atoms/molecules/cells/etc. have feelings. Exactly. Which is why you should not do it.
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  "The quantum wave wants to collapse into one of two states. The spin will either be up or down." Quantum mechanics is unpredictable as it gets :)
  - andrewflnr 12y ago
    Not in a way that helps your argument. The result may not be determined but the collapse itself, which is what your quote said the wave "wants", is pretty much guaranteed.
    - IgorPartola 12y ago
      You are right. I suppose a more complex system might be a better example where there are several competing forces. "X wants to go to state A, but Y wants X to go to state B" with some relative probabilities of each. Then again, I just don't buy the argument that our big problem here is that the language here is somehow misleading the general public, and that's really my main point. If we accept that we can't say things like these, we then should also stop using terms like "greedy algorithm" because they sound so sinister.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  When I think of deterministic things in science, the behavior of a single electron is right up at the top of the list.

ars 12y ago

There's a difference between deterministic actions like an electron, and random events. Using that language with events that always happen doesn't lead to problems. But as soon as you use it with events that only happen sometimes you cause your thinking to be skewed. There is also a difference with complexity level - using "want" for single step events is not the same as using it with multi-step complex events, that only as a final result "want" something. Doing that leads you to personify the system. > The problem usually is people who don't know what they are talking about misinterpreting it as though atoms/molecules/cells/etc. have feelings. Exactly. Which is why you should not do it.

IgorPartola 12y ago
"The quantum wave wants to collapse into one of two states. The spin will either be up or down." Quantum mechanics is unpredictable as it gets :)
- andrewflnr 12y ago
  Not in a way that helps your argument. The result may not be determined but the collapse itself, which is what your quote said the wave "wants", is pretty much guaranteed.
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    You are right. I suppose a more complex system might be a better example where there are several competing forces. "X wants to go to state A, but Y wants X to go to state B" with some relative probabilities of each. Then again, I just don't buy the argument that our big problem here is that the language here is somehow misleading the general public, and that's really my main point. If we accept that we can't say things like these, we then should also stop using terms like "greedy algorithm" because they sound so sinister.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
When I think of deterministic things in science, the behavior of a single electron is right up at the top of the list.