5 ms·

EULAs aren't laws. I can't agree to something illegal, nor can I agree to give up rights guaranteed to me by law. It all varies by jurisdiction, and fine print

EULAs aren't laws. I can't agree to something illegal, nor can I agree to give up rights guaranteed to me by law. It all varies by jurisdiction, and fine print designed to obfuscate the fact that it wasn't a sale probably wouldn't hold up even in jurisdictions where it would otherwise be possible. All of this would have to be tested in various jurisdictions in court. The troubling part is, that they are making blanket statements about all reverse engineering of abandon-ware regardless of original EULA or even if there is a party left to injure. We're straying dangerously close to "bank robbers use cars so cars should be illegal" territory.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> EULAs aren't laws. I can't agree to something illegal, nor can I agree to give up rights guaranteed to me by law. Actually, you generally can do the latter, unless the law specifically makes the right not waivable. Contracts, in general, are about giving up rights guaranteed by law.
- vacri 12y ago
  EULAs can't really be considered the same as contracts in a philosophical sense, since they're presented after sale. Back in the 90s, there was a Microsoft printed EULA that said that breaking the shrinkwrap counted as agreeing to the EULA, but you couldn't access the EULA without breaking the shrinkwrap (and opening the box). :)
rhino369 12y ago
You are right that a EULA can't violate the law, but the law doesn't say you get to keep playing it forever or that you can produce derivative copies. Contracts are VERY powerful in this country. The old saying that you can't sign your rights away is totally wrong. The default is that you can sign whatever rights you have away unless it is forbidden under the law.
anigbrowl 12y ago
They're contracts. Contracts are binding on the signatories. If you don't like the terms, you don't have to accept them. Also, contracts are evaluated based on what they say, not on what you think they ought to say. I'm no fan of the game publishing industry, but just because you don't like the idea that you're buying a license to use the game in a particular way rather than in perpetuity doesn't mean they're breaking the law.
- derefr 12y ago
  EULAs aren't contracts; contracts require compensation in kind. You already bought the product (a physical CD containing a game, say), and the EULA wasn't a part of the negotiation of that sale. The EULA only comes after, and you get nothing in exchange for agreeing to it, so it doesn't have any legal force. Imagine buying a home, and then on move-in day you find another contract taped to the front door that asks you to sign it in exchange for keys. In such a situation, the obvious thing to do is to just ignore the exploitation and call a locksmith. It's your house, after all; you have a prior negotiated sale that says so. EULAs work if you had to agree to them in advance of the product sale, of course. If you buy something from an online service, chances are you agreed to its EULA before being allowed to buy it. In fact, for "app stores" in particular (iTunes, Steam, etc.) individual products sold therein could have a post-install license with implicitly-fully-enforcable terms requiring no additional agreement, because the terms you agreed to when registering for the store could obligate you to abide by any additional terms shipped with the individual products.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    I find myself wondering if you have ever sat down and read a EULA carefully, because typically it includes a statement like this close to the beginning (this one from EA's EULA for The Sims 3, but IMHO pretty typical): Right to Return: If you do not agree to the terms of this License, and if you purchased this game from a physical retail store in the United States, and if you have not installed or used the Software, you may return the Software for a refund or exchange within thirty (30) days from the date of purchase by following the instructions for return available at warrantyinfo.ea.com. (emphasis added)
bitwize 12y ago
Four words for anyone who thinks they are not bound by the terms of the EULA: Vernor v. Autodesk, bitches. In the USA, EULAs are binding contracts and software distributed under them is licensed for use, not sold. You break the EULA, you lose your license. That's the law.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> EULAs aren't laws. I can't agree to something illegal, nor can I agree to give up rights guaranteed to me by law. Actually, you generally can do the latter, unless the law specifically makes the right not waivable. Contracts, in general, are about giving up rights guaranteed by law.

vacri 12y ago
EULAs can't really be considered the same as contracts in a philosophical sense, since they're presented after sale. Back in the 90s, there was a Microsoft printed EULA that said that breaking the shrinkwrap counted as agreeing to the EULA, but you couldn't access the EULA without breaking the shrinkwrap (and opening the box). :)

rhino369 12y ago

You are right that a EULA can't violate the law, but the law doesn't say you get to keep playing it forever or that you can produce derivative copies. Contracts are VERY powerful in this country. The old saying that you can't sign your rights away is totally wrong. The default is that you can sign whatever rights you have away unless it is forbidden under the law.

anigbrowl 12y ago

They're contracts. Contracts are binding on the signatories. If you don't like the terms, you don't have to accept them. Also, contracts are evaluated based on what they say, not on what you think they ought to say. I'm no fan of the game publishing industry, but just because you don't like the idea that you're buying a license to use the game in a particular way rather than in perpetuity doesn't mean they're breaking the law.

derefr 12y ago
EULAs aren't contracts; contracts require compensation in kind. You already bought the product (a physical CD containing a game, say), and the EULA wasn't a part of the negotiation of that sale. The EULA only comes after, and you get nothing in exchange for agreeing to it, so it doesn't have any legal force. Imagine buying a home, and then on move-in day you find another contract taped to the front door that asks you to sign it in exchange for keys. In such a situation, the obvious thing to do is to just ignore the exploitation and call a locksmith. It's your house, after all; you have a prior negotiated sale that says so. EULAs work if you had to agree to them in advance of the product sale, of course. If you buy something from an online service, chances are you agreed to its EULA before being allowed to buy it. In fact, for "app stores" in particular (iTunes, Steam, etc.) individual products sold therein could have a post-install license with implicitly-fully-enforcable terms requiring no additional agreement, because the terms you agreed to when registering for the store could obligate you to abide by any additional terms shipped with the individual products.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  I find myself wondering if you have ever sat down and read a EULA carefully, because typically it includes a statement like this close to the beginning (this one from EA's EULA for The Sims 3, but IMHO pretty typical): Right to Return: If you do not agree to the terms of this License, and if you purchased this game from a physical retail store in the United States, and if you have not installed or used the Software, you may return the Software for a refund or exchange within thirty (30) days from the date of purchase by following the instructions for return available at warrantyinfo.ea.com. (emphasis added)

bitwize 12y ago

Four words for anyone who thinks they are not bound by the terms of the EULA: Vernor v. Autodesk, bitches. In the USA, EULAs are binding contracts and software distributed under them is licensed for use, not sold. You break the EULA, you lose your license. That's the law.