5 ms·

You can pay me to work 60 hours a work, but so far no employers choose to.

by beamatronic 12y ago

jarin 12y ago
You'd have to pay me in time off. Preferably about 20 hours a week.
- javawizard 12y ago
  What about future time off? I'd happily work 60 hour weeks for $1,000,000/year, then retire after 5 years.
  - protomyth 12y ago
    Those type of jobs do exist. People working insane hours for about 5 years then cashing out. A lot of people say they would do it, but I wonder how many would survive that type of grind.
    - storgendibal 12y ago
      Actually, it gets better. That's the dirty little secret that I never knew about. Investment banking used to have insane hours (100+ basically on call all the time). The idea was that after 4-5 years you leave for a buy-side gig (hedge funds, private equity) that pay you the same or more ($1-5M in your early to mid-30s) but with more reasonable hours. This is why the smartest CS/Math/EE/Physics grads from MIT etc went to Wall Street in the 2000s. I wish I knew then what I know now :) I put in 100+ hours a week for a tech firm because interesting/love what I do/blah. And all I have to show for it is stock that increased a little bit.
      - dmix 12y ago
        > And all I have to show for it is stock that increased a little bit. Oh lucky guy. I've heard enough of these stories without even that. But startups are highly voluntary so I take that relatively lightly compared to corporate responsibility of Apple et al.
        storgendibal 12y ago
        Lol! I was in a large tech company, so the stock was as good as cash. Since I could not get finance-level pay, I figured out how to draw lines around my work so I at least had a pretty good life outside of work. It took me a couple of years to figure that out though.
      - Enzolangellotti 12y ago
        > The idea was that after 4-5 years you leave for a buy-side gig (hedge funds, private equity) that pay you the same or more ($1-5M in your early to mid-30s) but with more reasonable hours. That idea is now a myth, only a handful of wall-streeters break the 1-2 million mark according to various industry surveys (generally you can earn a lot more if you are a principal or a portfolio manager at a successful hedge fund, but those are outliers, the truth is that the belief everyone on the buyside is living a model and bottles lifestyle (or might be able to) is a huge misconception). IMHO, the best shot at becoming rich remains entrepreneurship.
    - amyjess 12y ago
      I've heard similar stories from people who work on oil platforms. Forgot the exact numbers, but it's something like six months you live there and work most of your waking hours, then six months vacation, and the pay is stupid high (and living on the platform while you work there means you have almost no personal expenses during that time).
      - wtbob 12y ago
        that's not all that different from the deal folks get from the U.S. military; agree to work 12-on/12-off at someone else's will, for some reasonable number of months at a time ('reasonable' is determined by people who have done the same gig, once upon a time, and climbed the organisational hierarchy); in return get decent pay and extremely decent post-tenure benefits.
        amyjess 12y ago
        Yep. And, again, personal expenses go down to almost zilch while living on-base. My mom's boyfriend is in the National Guard. Every few years, he gets activated and deployed somewhere for a year or two. Every time he comes back, he takes the money he saved by not having to pay for anything for a year and buys himself an expensive new car. Last time, he bought a Dodge Challenger SRT8.
    - Hobotron1 12y ago
      People pay for the experience: see college.
protomyth 12y ago
Consulting companies / Body Shops often do. I did get paid for those types of weeks a long while back (billed hourly - 50-80 hour weeks - nice rate). It does get painful after a year or two, and the winter in the northland is a bit harsh since you aren't seeing much sun.
storgendibal 12y ago
Heh, 60 hours is a low intensity week in management consulting and especially investment banking. Once upon a time, a banker 2-3 years out of an MBA (say 28-30) would make $300-500K cash. The hourly rate is lower than minimum wage though (these guys used to put in 100+ hours). They did it in the hopes of landing a private equity gig that would pay them $1M+ for a 50-70 hour work week. That's a deal I would take in a heart beat, if I found the work interesting. There was an interesting article in Fortune a while ago. The tldr was that you shouldn't get mad that Wall Street pays too much, but that the rest of corporate America pays too little. When companies are building war chests in the tens of hundreds of billions, and also feel the need to collude to prevent "poaching", you have to wonder. The sad part is that people in technology sometimes love the work so much, that they are willing to put in more than they should on pure economic terms. The finance and consulting types are more ruthless about their own worth. EDIT: My minimum wage comment was more about making a point. Banker types like to say they make lots of money but make less per-hour than a McDonald's employee.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Once upon a time, a banker 2-3 years out of an MBA (say 28-30) would make $300-500K cash. The hourly rate is lower than minimum wage though (these guys used to put in 100+ hours). No, its not lower than minimum wage, even at the low end of that range, and even if they worked all 168 hours of every week. $300K / 8,760 hours a year (assuming a non-leap-year, and 24/7 schedule) = $34.24/hour Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr; even with the +50% premium for overtime after the first 40 hours in a week, that's only $10.88/hr for the overtime hours. So its literally impossible to clear $300K a year and be making less than minimum wage, without some kind of weird time warping ability that lets you work 3+ years of 24/7 work in one calendar year. EDIT: To respond to the edit of the parent post... > My minimum wage comment was more about making a point. What point is made by this drastically false claim? > Banker types like to say they make lots of money but make less per-hour than a McDonald's employee. If that's true (along with the compensation numbers you present), that tells us that one of the following is true: 1. Bankers are innumerate, 2. Bankers are ignorant of their own compensation, 3. Bankers are ignorant of the compensation of low-wage workers, or 4. Bankers are being dishonest, perhaps in an effort to deflect criticism of their compensation compared to other workers.

You can pay me to work 60 hours a work, but so far no employers choose to.

jarin 12y ago

You'd have to pay me in time off. Preferably about 20 hours a week.

javawizard 12y ago
What about future time off? I'd happily work 60 hour weeks for $1,000,000/year, then retire after 5 years.
- protomyth 12y ago
  Those type of jobs do exist. People working insane hours for about 5 years then cashing out. A lot of people say they would do it, but I wonder how many would survive that type of grind.
  - storgendibal 12y ago
    Actually, it gets better. That's the dirty little secret that I never knew about. Investment banking used to have insane hours (100+ basically on call all the time). The idea was that after 4-5 years you leave for a buy-side gig (hedge funds, private equity) that pay you the same or more ($1-5M in your early to mid-30s) but with more reasonable hours. This is why the smartest CS/Math/EE/Physics grads from MIT etc went to Wall Street in the 2000s. I wish I knew then what I know now :) I put in 100+ hours a week for a tech firm because interesting/love what I do/blah. And all I have to show for it is stock that increased a little bit.
    - dmix 12y ago
      > And all I have to show for it is stock that increased a little bit. Oh lucky guy. I've heard enough of these stories without even that. But startups are highly voluntary so I take that relatively lightly compared to corporate responsibility of Apple et al.
      - storgendibal 12y ago
        Lol! I was in a large tech company, so the stock was as good as cash. Since I could not get finance-level pay, I figured out how to draw lines around my work so I at least had a pretty good life outside of work. It took me a couple of years to figure that out though.
    - Enzolangellotti 12y ago
      > The idea was that after 4-5 years you leave for a buy-side gig (hedge funds, private equity) that pay you the same or more ($1-5M in your early to mid-30s) but with more reasonable hours. That idea is now a myth, only a handful of wall-streeters break the 1-2 million mark according to various industry surveys (generally you can earn a lot more if you are a principal or a portfolio manager at a successful hedge fund, but those are outliers, the truth is that the belief everyone on the buyside is living a model and bottles lifestyle (or might be able to) is a huge misconception). IMHO, the best shot at becoming rich remains entrepreneurship.
  - amyjess 12y ago
    I've heard similar stories from people who work on oil platforms. Forgot the exact numbers, but it's something like six months you live there and work most of your waking hours, then six months vacation, and the pay is stupid high (and living on the platform while you work there means you have almost no personal expenses during that time).
    - wtbob 12y ago
      that's not all that different from the deal folks get from the U.S. military; agree to work 12-on/12-off at someone else's will, for some reasonable number of months at a time ('reasonable' is determined by people who have done the same gig, once upon a time, and climbed the organisational hierarchy); in return get decent pay and extremely decent post-tenure benefits.
      - amyjess 12y ago
        Yep. And, again, personal expenses go down to almost zilch while living on-base. My mom's boyfriend is in the National Guard. Every few years, he gets activated and deployed somewhere for a year or two. Every time he comes back, he takes the money he saved by not having to pay for anything for a year and buys himself an expensive new car. Last time, he bought a Dodge Challenger SRT8.
  - Hobotron1 12y ago
    People pay for the experience: see college.

protomyth 12y ago

Consulting companies / Body Shops often do. I did get paid for those types of weeks a long while back (billed hourly - 50-80 hour weeks - nice rate). It does get painful after a year or two, and the winter in the northland is a bit harsh since you aren't seeing much sun.

storgendibal 12y ago

Heh, 60 hours is a low intensity week in management consulting and especially investment banking. Once upon a time, a banker 2-3 years out of an MBA (say 28-30) would make $300-500K cash. The hourly rate is lower than minimum wage though (these guys used to put in 100+ hours). They did it in the hopes of landing a private equity gig that would pay them $1M+ for a 50-70 hour work week. That's a deal I would take in a heart beat, if I found the work interesting. There was an interesting article in Fortune a while ago. The tldr was that you shouldn't get mad that Wall Street pays too much, but that the rest of corporate America pays too little. When companies are building war chests in the tens of hundreds of billions, and also feel the need to collude to prevent "poaching", you have to wonder. The sad part is that people in technology sometimes love the work so much, that they are willing to put in more than they should on pure economic terms. The finance and consulting types are more ruthless about their own worth. EDIT: My minimum wage comment was more about making a point. Banker types like to say they make lots of money but make less per-hour than a McDonald's employee.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Once upon a time, a banker 2-3 years out of an MBA (say 28-30) would make $300-500K cash. The hourly rate is lower than minimum wage though (these guys used to put in 100+ hours). No, its not lower than minimum wage, even at the low end of that range, and even if they worked all 168 hours of every week. $300K / 8,760 hours a year (assuming a non-leap-year, and 24/7 schedule) = $34.24/hour Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr; even with the +50% premium for overtime after the first 40 hours in a week, that's only $10.88/hr for the overtime hours. So its literally impossible to clear $300K a year and be making less than minimum wage, without some kind of weird time warping ability that lets you work 3+ years of 24/7 work in one calendar year. EDIT: To respond to the edit of the parent post... > My minimum wage comment was more about making a point. What point is made by this drastically false claim? > Banker types like to say they make lots of money but make less per-hour than a McDonald's employee. If that's true (along with the compensation numbers you present), that tells us that one of the following is true: 1. Bankers are innumerate, 2. Bankers are ignorant of their own compensation, 3. Bankers are ignorant of the compensation of low-wage workers, or 4. Bankers are being dishonest, perhaps in an effort to deflect criticism of their compensation compared to other workers.