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Engineers right out of school make $200k/yr working for the likes of Google or Facebook. This is incredibly rare. Including equity and bonus, the numbers are c

Engineers right out of school make $200k/yr working for the likes of Google or Facebook. This is incredibly rare. Including equity and bonus, the numbers are closer to $140-170k, and that's for Stanford graduates. $200k+ comes later (although it can come quick if you're good at career planning). That's Staff Engineer territory at Google. I agree with everything that you're saying. I just don't want misinformation to be out there.

rbranson 12y ago
I'd agree with these numbers in 2012 or maybe 2013, but engineering comp has gone bonkers in the Bay Area. Uber has published comp for engineers[1] that put them starting at $110K/yr + $410K in equity. Presuming a 4-year cliff that's $212K/yr. The top end of that scale is $170K/yr in cash + $2M in equity, or $670K/yr. My guess is that Uber also pays decent-sized performance-based cash bonuses or has other cash-like benefits (401k matching?) that aren't included. Uber is also not some kind of iffy, fly-by-night startup. Apple, Google, Facebook, and myriad other companies all have to compete in that market for the same talent. [1] https://angel.co/uber/jobs/57827-ios-engineer-uber-multiple-roles-available https://angel.co/uber/jobs/57827-ios-engineer-uber-multiple-...
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  Those numbers assume that you believe in Uber's valuation. It's a winner's curse. Obviously, the equity is worth something, but $41B for a company that has pissed off regulators all over the globe and an unlikeable founder seems high. Then you have the uncertainty around vesting, weird acquisition terms, preferences, whether you believe the valuation, etc. It's impossible to come up a fair value for the equity without knowing a lot of things that average engineers will never have access to. $170k + $500k of paper as valued by VCs (who have a different risk profile, and get the bonus of being able to inject their buddies into executive roles) is not the same thing as $670k. Also, Uber is a company that everyone hates and it has to pay an "asshole tax" to be able to hire anyone.
  - rbranson 12y ago
    There aren't very many large tech companies that publish compensation information in job postings, so I used Uber's job posting. Equity requires belief in any company's valuation. I'm not here to argue about Uber's valuation, I'm just using them as an example. It's also not really fair to call Uber's equity "paper" -- there are liquidation vehicles for average employees. As far as the asshole tax, I don't think Uber's reputation is all that much worse than Facebook or Google, do you?
    - ForHackernews 12y ago
      > As far as the asshole tax, I don't think Uber's reputation is all that much worse than Facebook or Google, do you? Absolutely yes. I wouldn't work for Uber for less than a million dollars. Google (and to a lesser extent, Facebook) is seen as a cool company that does (mostly) positive things. Uber are seen as a bunch of libertarian assholes who actively break the law, dodge liability, screw over their ~~employees~~ independent contractors and price-gouge their customers.

rbranson 12y ago

I'd agree with these numbers in 2012 or maybe 2013, but engineering comp has gone bonkers in the Bay Area. Uber has published comp for engineers[1] that put them starting at $110K/yr + $410K in equity. Presuming a 4-year cliff that's $212K/yr. The top end of that scale is $170K/yr in cash + $2M in equity, or $670K/yr. My guess is that Uber also pays decent-sized performance-based cash bonuses or has other cash-like benefits (401k matching?) that aren't included. Uber is also not some kind of iffy, fly-by-night startup. Apple, Google, Facebook, and myriad other companies all have to compete in that market for the same talent. [1] https://angel.co/uber/jobs/57827-ios-engineer-uber-multiple-roles-available https://angel.co/uber/jobs/57827-ios-engineer-uber-multiple-...

michaelochurch 12y ago
Those numbers assume that you believe in Uber's valuation. It's a winner's curse. Obviously, the equity is worth something, but $41B for a company that has pissed off regulators all over the globe and an unlikeable founder seems high. Then you have the uncertainty around vesting, weird acquisition terms, preferences, whether you believe the valuation, etc. It's impossible to come up a fair value for the equity without knowing a lot of things that average engineers will never have access to. $170k + $500k of paper as valued by VCs (who have a different risk profile, and get the bonus of being able to inject their buddies into executive roles) is not the same thing as $670k. Also, Uber is a company that everyone hates and it has to pay an "asshole tax" to be able to hire anyone.
- rbranson 12y ago
  There aren't very many large tech companies that publish compensation information in job postings, so I used Uber's job posting. Equity requires belief in any company's valuation. I'm not here to argue about Uber's valuation, I'm just using them as an example. It's also not really fair to call Uber's equity "paper" -- there are liquidation vehicles for average employees. As far as the asshole tax, I don't think Uber's reputation is all that much worse than Facebook or Google, do you?
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    > As far as the asshole tax, I don't think Uber's reputation is all that much worse than Facebook or Google, do you? Absolutely yes. I wouldn't work for Uber for less than a million dollars. Google (and to a lesser extent, Facebook) is seen as a cool company that does (mostly) positive things. Uber are seen as a bunch of libertarian assholes who actively break the law, dodge liability, screw over their ~~employees~~ independent contractors and price-gouge their customers.