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Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment s

Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy.

craigwblake 12y ago
> Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. And, for the most part, it has little to do with breaking the law. In many places, including the vast majority of the U.S., DIY weapons (with a few exceptions) are perfectly legal provided you are not a prohibited person. > I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy. What makes you think that 2A supporters fail to understand this? The ubiquitous availability of deadly weapons of all forms is a common theme in the utilitarian argument against gun control.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  That the debate is pointless. That if we take away some toys, people will just use others, so what is the point of defending firearms ownership. On the other hand - even with strict gun control gun violence probably won't be reduced ... you need good jobs to make the young males not taking stupid risks and better mental health care for the psychos. And the feds actually have lots of tools with which to reduce gun ownership legally ... seems the whole issue is alive mostly because it channels away energy from the real issues.
collyw 12y ago
Would you have the same attitude about kiddie porn? What you say is true, but being able to buy guns from Tor will save you a lot of hassle over trying to manufacture your own. I think I am pretty open minded, but I was fairly shocked at what claimed to be available when I logged onto Tor to see what it was all about.
- golemotron 12y ago
  Apples and oranges. Guns have no victim unless they are used and the vast majority of them, illegal or not, are never used to hurt anyone. Our society fetishes guns enormously. I know some people who would be uncomfortable being in someone's house if they new they had a gun, even if they trust and know everyone in the house. Those same people are never scared by steak or hunting knives in the same house.
  - RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago
    In my country (Australia) I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. I'd certainly think the owner was a bit odd/unhinged unless they owned it as part of their employment (farmer, roo shooter etc.). That said, I don't see this as a big deal. It's always been possible to mail weapons from a jurisdiction with easier access to them. Tor black markets just make it a little easier to organise.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
      I aalso live in Australia, and I can offer a different perspective. I grew up in Port Lincoln in South Australia. My father owned a couple of .22 rifles, I've fired shotguns a few times, currently live in Launceston in Tasmania, more than half the 30 odd guys I work with own one or more (mostly more) guns. None of them require a firearm for work purposes, they're all hunters / enthusiasts. Most of the people I know are comfortable with guns. None of the gun owners I know are "odd/unhinged", and I think that is an uncharitable characterisation of gun owners in this country. For many people firearms are amazing creations of metallurgy and machining, and hold artistic values in and of themselves, in the same way some people appreciate knives or swords, or cars or aeroplanes.
    - wyager 12y ago
      > I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. And most Americans would be uncomfortable going to a nude beach with their German friends. That says nothing about its morality or safety.
bhayden 12y ago
Agreed - anyone can make a zipgun with a couple pieces of pipe and a nail from Home Depot, under $10. Just as lethal as any other single-capacity shotgun.

craigwblake 12y ago

> Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. And, for the most part, it has little to do with breaking the law. In many places, including the vast majority of the U.S., DIY weapons (with a few exceptions) are perfectly legal provided you are not a prohibited person. > I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy. What makes you think that 2A supporters fail to understand this? The ubiquitous availability of deadly weapons of all forms is a common theme in the utilitarian argument against gun control.

venomsnake 12y ago
That the debate is pointless. That if we take away some toys, people will just use others, so what is the point of defending firearms ownership. On the other hand - even with strict gun control gun violence probably won't be reduced ... you need good jobs to make the young males not taking stupid risks and better mental health care for the psychos. And the feds actually have lots of tools with which to reduce gun ownership legally ... seems the whole issue is alive mostly because it channels away energy from the real issues.

collyw 12y ago

Would you have the same attitude about kiddie porn? What you say is true, but being able to buy guns from Tor will save you a lot of hassle over trying to manufacture your own. I think I am pretty open minded, but I was fairly shocked at what claimed to be available when I logged onto Tor to see what it was all about.

golemotron 12y ago
Apples and oranges. Guns have no victim unless they are used and the vast majority of them, illegal or not, are never used to hurt anyone. Our society fetishes guns enormously. I know some people who would be uncomfortable being in someone's house if they new they had a gun, even if they trust and know everyone in the house. Those same people are never scared by steak or hunting knives in the same house.
- RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago
  In my country (Australia) I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. I'd certainly think the owner was a bit odd/unhinged unless they owned it as part of their employment (farmer, roo shooter etc.). That said, I don't see this as a big deal. It's always been possible to mail weapons from a jurisdiction with easier access to them. Tor black markets just make it a little easier to organise.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
    I aalso live in Australia, and I can offer a different perspective. I grew up in Port Lincoln in South Australia. My father owned a couple of .22 rifles, I've fired shotguns a few times, currently live in Launceston in Tasmania, more than half the 30 odd guys I work with own one or more (mostly more) guns. None of them require a firearm for work purposes, they're all hunters / enthusiasts. Most of the people I know are comfortable with guns. None of the gun owners I know are "odd/unhinged", and I think that is an uncharitable characterisation of gun owners in this country. For many people firearms are amazing creations of metallurgy and machining, and hold artistic values in and of themselves, in the same way some people appreciate knives or swords, or cars or aeroplanes.
  - wyager 12y ago
    > I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. And most Americans would be uncomfortable going to a nude beach with their German friends. That says nothing about its morality or safety.

bhayden 12y ago

Agreed - anyone can make a zipgun with a couple pieces of pipe and a nail from Home Depot, under $10. Just as lethal as any other single-capacity shotgun.