7 ms·

Tor: Illegal Weapons

56 points by skazka16 12y ago

draugadrotten 12y ago
Law Enforcement knows very well how to deal with Tor, as evidenced by busts against Silk Road and even small time drug dealers as operation ononymous. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/operation-onymous-six-britons-arrested-police-bust-400-drug-dealing-dark-web-sites-1473713 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/operation-onymous-six-britons-arres... Russia also knows how to go after Tor, as seen in Malware busts and the arrest of "Paunch" malware creator in Russia. http://geekslop.com/2013/blackhole-malware-creator-arrested-in-russia http://geekslop.com/2013/blackhole-malware-creator-arrested-... If individual guns can be sold online, it only means that Law Enforcement is not prioritising going after the sales of individual guns - right or wrong - they are not stopped by the use of Tor or even encryption.
- JulianMorrison 12y ago
  They are stopped. But when they focus on an individual, or a site, they only need one mistake.
- ryanlol 12y ago
  Paunch had nothing to do with Tor and wasn't exactly trying to hide his identity.
venomsnake 12y ago
Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy.
- craigwblake 12y ago
  > Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. And, for the most part, it has little to do with breaking the law. In many places, including the vast majority of the U.S., DIY weapons (with a few exceptions) are perfectly legal provided you are not a prohibited person. > I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy. What makes you think that 2A supporters fail to understand this? The ubiquitous availability of deadly weapons of all forms is a common theme in the utilitarian argument against gun control.
  - venomsnake 12y ago
    That the debate is pointless. That if we take away some toys, people will just use others, so what is the point of defending firearms ownership. On the other hand - even with strict gun control gun violence probably won't be reduced ... you need good jobs to make the young males not taking stupid risks and better mental health care for the psychos. And the feds actually have lots of tools with which to reduce gun ownership legally ... seems the whole issue is alive mostly because it channels away energy from the real issues.
- collyw 12y ago
  Would you have the same attitude about kiddie porn? What you say is true, but being able to buy guns from Tor will save you a lot of hassle over trying to manufacture your own. I think I am pretty open minded, but I was fairly shocked at what claimed to be available when I logged onto Tor to see what it was all about.
  - golemotron 12y ago
    Apples and oranges. Guns have no victim unless they are used and the vast majority of them, illegal or not, are never used to hurt anyone. Our society fetishes guns enormously. I know some people who would be uncomfortable being in someone's house if they new they had a gun, even if they trust and know everyone in the house. Those same people are never scared by steak or hunting knives in the same house.
    - RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago
      In my country (Australia) I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. I'd certainly think the owner was a bit odd/unhinged unless they owned it as part of their employment (farmer, roo shooter etc.). That said, I don't see this as a big deal. It's always been possible to mail weapons from a jurisdiction with easier access to them. Tor black markets just make it a little easier to organise.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
        I aalso live in Australia, and I can offer a different perspective. I grew up in Port Lincoln in South Australia. My father owned a couple of .22 rifles, I've fired shotguns a few times, currently live in Launceston in Tasmania, more than half the 30 odd guys I work with own one or more (mostly more) guns. None of them require a firearm for work purposes, they're all hunters / enthusiasts. Most of the people I know are comfortable with guns. None of the gun owners I know are "odd/unhinged", and I think that is an uncharitable characterisation of gun owners in this country. For many people firearms are amazing creations of metallurgy and machining, and hold artistic values in and of themselves, in the same way some people appreciate knives or swords, or cars or aeroplanes.
- bhayden 12y ago
  Agreed - anyone can make a zipgun with a couple pieces of pipe and a nail from Home Depot, under $10. Just as lethal as any other single-capacity shotgun.
hias 12y ago
How does this work? I guess they can not just ship the heavy guns via standard postal services? Aren't there controls in the shipping centers which check for scents of drugs, gunpowder, whatever?
- ryanlol 12y ago
  Actually they can. The controls they use do not scale and therefore are only used for targeted and random checks. Having one out of 100 packages seized won't really hurt your bottom line.
- pakled_engineer 12y ago
  Russians always use GPS drop since the post system there is totally unreliable. Everywhere else they disassemble and mail the guns with a pile of scrap and call it 'bike parts' or something. No idea how they ship the ammo I hope they don't mail it as it goes on passenger planes and live ammunition has to be secured so an LD3 doesnt roll around, crush something then set off bullets flying through the cabin.
  - hga 12y ago
    If a round is not sufficiently encased by a chamber, the bullet will go nowhere as the brass or steel splits and vents. In one "oops" I read about, when someone was in too much of a hurry to finish a "bullet board" (a display of cartridges on a board), they used a drill on a loaded round to to make a hole to get the powder out (also makes it clear the round is not loaded), holding the round with their fingers. No, that's not a good idea; even if their fingers didn't feel the heat generated by the drill quickly enough, it was sufficient to set off the primer, which embedded itself into the guy's bicep. And the case split, but only spilled unburned powder on his hand, that situation wasn't enough to set it on fire or otherwise harm him. So I tend to assume it's more of an accelerant problem than a primary fire hazard, especially since as far as I know, loaded cartridges with sharp, pointy bullets but also with extra hard military primers as sometimes sold and shipped in bulk packaging, "loose" inside a bag (! see e.g. http://www.natchezss.com/federal-5-56-62gr-fmj-green-tip-600-pk.html http://www.natchezss.com/federal-5-56-62gr-fmj-green-tip-600...). That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, but apparently the biggest US ammo manufacturer, many distributors, and the US Department of Transportation and UPS are OK with shipping that by ground.

56 points by skazka16 12y ago

Law Enforcement knows very well how to deal with Tor, as evidenced by busts against Silk Road and even small time drug dealers as operation ononymous. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/operation-onymous-six-britons-arrested-police-bust-400-drug-dealing-dark-web-sites-1473713 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/operation-onymous-six-britons-arres... Russia also knows how to go after Tor, as seen in Malware busts and the arrest of "Paunch" malware creator in Russia. http://geekslop.com/2013/blackhole-malware-creator-arrested-in-russia http://geekslop.com/2013/blackhole-malware-creator-arrested-... If individual guns can be sold online, it only means that Law Enforcement is not prioritising going after the sales of individual guns - right or wrong - they are not stopped by the use of Tor or even encryption.

JulianMorrison 12y ago
They are stopped. But when they focus on an individual, or a site, they only need one mistake.
ryanlol 12y ago
Paunch had nothing to do with Tor and wasn't exactly trying to hide his identity.

venomsnake 12y ago

Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy.

craigwblake 12y ago
> Big deal. It is not as if it is something hard to DIY if you are committed to breaking the law. And, for the most part, it has little to do with breaking the law. In many places, including the vast majority of the U.S., DIY weapons (with a few exceptions) are perfectly legal provided you are not a prohibited person. > I think that is the stuff that both sides of second amendment shouting match fail to get - inventing deadly stuff is easy. What makes you think that 2A supporters fail to understand this? The ubiquitous availability of deadly weapons of all forms is a common theme in the utilitarian argument against gun control.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  That the debate is pointless. That if we take away some toys, people will just use others, so what is the point of defending firearms ownership. On the other hand - even with strict gun control gun violence probably won't be reduced ... you need good jobs to make the young males not taking stupid risks and better mental health care for the psychos. And the feds actually have lots of tools with which to reduce gun ownership legally ... seems the whole issue is alive mostly because it channels away energy from the real issues.
collyw 12y ago
Would you have the same attitude about kiddie porn? What you say is true, but being able to buy guns from Tor will save you a lot of hassle over trying to manufacture your own. I think I am pretty open minded, but I was fairly shocked at what claimed to be available when I logged onto Tor to see what it was all about.
- golemotron 12y ago
  Apples and oranges. Guns have no victim unless they are used and the vast majority of them, illegal or not, are never used to hurt anyone. Our society fetishes guns enormously. I know some people who would be uncomfortable being in someone's house if they new they had a gun, even if they trust and know everyone in the house. Those same people are never scared by steak or hunting knives in the same house.
  - RVuRnvbM2e 12y ago
    In my country (Australia) I believe most people would be a little uncomfortable if they knew they were in a house with a gun. I'd certainly think the owner was a bit odd/unhinged unless they owned it as part of their employment (farmer, roo shooter etc.). That said, I don't see this as a big deal. It's always been possible to mail weapons from a jurisdiction with easier access to them. Tor black markets just make it a little easier to organise.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
      I aalso live in Australia, and I can offer a different perspective. I grew up in Port Lincoln in South Australia. My father owned a couple of .22 rifles, I've fired shotguns a few times, currently live in Launceston in Tasmania, more than half the 30 odd guys I work with own one or more (mostly more) guns. None of them require a firearm for work purposes, they're all hunters / enthusiasts. Most of the people I know are comfortable with guns. None of the gun owners I know are "odd/unhinged", and I think that is an uncharitable characterisation of gun owners in this country. For many people firearms are amazing creations of metallurgy and machining, and hold artistic values in and of themselves, in the same way some people appreciate knives or swords, or cars or aeroplanes.
bhayden 12y ago
Agreed - anyone can make a zipgun with a couple pieces of pipe and a nail from Home Depot, under $10. Just as lethal as any other single-capacity shotgun.

hias 12y ago

How does this work? I guess they can not just ship the heavy guns via standard postal services? Aren't there controls in the shipping centers which check for scents of drugs, gunpowder, whatever?

ryanlol 12y ago
Actually they can. The controls they use do not scale and therefore are only used for targeted and random checks. Having one out of 100 packages seized won't really hurt your bottom line.
pakled_engineer 12y ago
Russians always use GPS drop since the post system there is totally unreliable. Everywhere else they disassemble and mail the guns with a pile of scrap and call it 'bike parts' or something. No idea how they ship the ammo I hope they don't mail it as it goes on passenger planes and live ammunition has to be secured so an LD3 doesnt roll around, crush something then set off bullets flying through the cabin.
- hga 12y ago
  If a round is not sufficiently encased by a chamber, the bullet will go nowhere as the brass or steel splits and vents. In one "oops" I read about, when someone was in too much of a hurry to finish a "bullet board" (a display of cartridges on a board), they used a drill on a loaded round to to make a hole to get the powder out (also makes it clear the round is not loaded), holding the round with their fingers. No, that's not a good idea; even if their fingers didn't feel the heat generated by the drill quickly enough, it was sufficient to set off the primer, which embedded itself into the guy's bicep. And the case split, but only spilled unburned powder on his hand, that situation wasn't enough to set it on fire or otherwise harm him. So I tend to assume it's more of an accelerant problem than a primary fire hazard, especially since as far as I know, loaded cartridges with sharp, pointy bullets but also with extra hard military primers as sometimes sold and shipped in bulk packaging, "loose" inside a bag (! see e.g. http://www.natchezss.com/federal-5-56-62gr-fmj-green-tip-600-pk.html http://www.natchezss.com/federal-5-56-62gr-fmj-green-tip-600...). That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, but apparently the biggest US ammo manufacturer, many distributors, and the US Department of Transportation and UPS are OK with shipping that by ground.