6 ms·

> Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia Except for you know, when it's still light at 7.30pm. I like light evenings

by imron 12y ago

> Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia Except for you know, when it's still light at 7.30pm. I like light evenings in the summer and am prepared to accept a little complexity as a tradeoff.

MichaelGG 12y ago
People say this, but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? And didn't Australia do some last minute DST nonsense like a Latam country, versus planning far ahead?
- yen223 12y ago
  I never liked the argument that DST gives you a consistent sunrise and sunset time, because it can't. DST can't extend the amount of daylight for obvious reasons. It's rather like redefining the metre so that everyone is 2 metres tall - you're adding a lot of complexity for not a lot of consistency.
  - imron 12y ago
    Who makes that argument? Daylight savings doesn't give you consistent sunrise/sunsets. For example, in Melbourne, Australia, in the winter it will be dark by around 5:30pm. In the summer it gets dark by around 8:30pm. I like having inconsistent sunrise and sunset times (e.g. extra daylight time in the evenings in the summer). Neither do I think daylight savings extends the amount of daylight. What it does is shift the typical working day so that by the end of it, there are still a few more hours of daylight left. That's what I like about.
    - broodbucket 12y ago
      That's all well and good, however I don't think it comes close to justifying the complexity.
      - imron 12y ago
        Ironically, removing it now would only add to the complexity.
- imron 12y ago
  > but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? It's not about going out, it's just nice still having a few hours of daylight in the early evenings after I've finished work.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    ...come into work earlier, leave work earlier. It's just an hour.
    - iSnow 12y ago
      ... until your boss schedules meetings.
    - imron 12y ago
      It's not always as simple as that. Besides it's far simpler from a personal perspective for me to set my clocks forward/back twice a year that move my entire daily schedule forward and back twice a year. It's maybe a selfish reason, just to get a little more daylight in the evening, but I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
      - lsaferite 12y ago
        But... isn't that just semantics? I mean, you ARE moving your schedule twice a year. At least according to your brain. That a clock says is secondary I'd think.
        imron 12y ago
        No, what the clock says is primary, because it means that's what the people around me are doing also. If it's only me moving my schedule, then I'm getting up an hour earlier, eating breakfast an hour earlier, starting work an hour earlier, getting hungry for lunch an hour earlier, finishing work an hour earlier, going to sleep an hour earlier etc. It puts me out of sync with everyone else around me. Yes I'd get used to it eventually as would people around me and then I'd switch back half a year later. If however the clock moves, then everyone around me is moving their schedule too, and we are in sync.
- j_lev 12y ago
  Put another way, it's taking advantage of light hours in the morning that are otherwise wasted sleeping. In Tokyo it's light outside from 4am in Summer, if you can instead have an hour of that in the evening then that's an extra hour people don't need to turn on their lights.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    I was under the impression that people can decide for themselves the times when they want to go to bed and wake up. If I lived in Tokyo, I would likely choose to wake at an earlier clock time, but still at the same offset from whenever local noon may be. If someone built an alarm clock with a GPS receiver that used the equation of time to calculate apparent solar time, mean solar time, and civil time from GPS time, and if it allowed the user to set the alarm as an offset from local sunrise, noon, or sunset, would anyone besides myself buy it? I think if more timepieces were more informative about how much difference there is between civil time and mean solar time, people would be less tolerant of daylight savings time. But those timepieces would also have to handle all the time zones plus the multitude of stupid rules different civil jurisdictions use to calculate DST. Hopefully, the wrist-mount computers emerging onto the market will make it possible to create "DST howling outrage generator" applications.
    - imron 12y ago
      >I was under the impression that people can decide for themselves the times when they want to go to bed and wake up. That's correct, and most people choose times that are roughly in sync with the people around them. Waking up an hour earlier is less useful if the gym isn't open an hour earlier, or your favourite breakfast stall isn't open an hour earlier etc.
      - logfromblammo 12y ago
        If your life is so strictly scheduled that you can't adjust parts of it an hour or two in either direction, or swap morning activities with evening activities, your problems are bigger than daylight savings time. Some people work 2nd or 3rd shift, and a few of them even do it by choice. If you think moving things around by one hour is difficult, try shifting them eight hours. Those people still manage, though they often acquire sleep-related health problems and have to deal with more inconveniences in their daily life.
yxhuvud 12y ago
Is that a problem? That is the case here for more than a quarter of the year.

by imron 12y ago

MichaelGG 12y ago

People say this, but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? And didn't Australia do some last minute DST nonsense like a Latam country, versus planning far ahead?

yen223 12y ago
I never liked the argument that DST gives you a consistent sunrise and sunset time, because it can't. DST can't extend the amount of daylight for obvious reasons. It's rather like redefining the metre so that everyone is 2 metres tall - you're adding a lot of complexity for not a lot of consistency.
- imron 12y ago
  Who makes that argument? Daylight savings doesn't give you consistent sunrise/sunsets. For example, in Melbourne, Australia, in the winter it will be dark by around 5:30pm. In the summer it gets dark by around 8:30pm. I like having inconsistent sunrise and sunset times (e.g. extra daylight time in the evenings in the summer). Neither do I think daylight savings extends the amount of daylight. What it does is shift the typical working day so that by the end of it, there are still a few more hours of daylight left. That's what I like about.
  - broodbucket 12y ago
    That's all well and good, however I don't think it comes close to justifying the complexity.
    - imron 12y ago
      Ironically, removing it now would only add to the complexity.
imron 12y ago
> but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? It's not about going out, it's just nice still having a few hours of daylight in the early evenings after I've finished work.
- saraid216 12y ago
  ...come into work earlier, leave work earlier. It's just an hour.
  - iSnow 12y ago
    ... until your boss schedules meetings.
  - imron 12y ago
    It's not always as simple as that. Besides it's far simpler from a personal perspective for me to set my clocks forward/back twice a year that move my entire daily schedule forward and back twice a year. It's maybe a selfish reason, just to get a little more daylight in the evening, but I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
    - lsaferite 12y ago
      But... isn't that just semantics? I mean, you ARE moving your schedule twice a year. At least according to your brain. That a clock says is secondary I'd think.
      - imron 12y ago
        No, what the clock says is primary, because it means that's what the people around me are doing also. If it's only me moving my schedule, then I'm getting up an hour earlier, eating breakfast an hour earlier, starting work an hour earlier, getting hungry for lunch an hour earlier, finishing work an hour earlier, going to sleep an hour earlier etc. It puts me out of sync with everyone else around me. Yes I'd get used to it eventually as would people around me and then I'd switch back half a year later. If however the clock moves, then everyone around me is moving their schedule too, and we are in sync.
j_lev 12y ago
Put another way, it's taking advantage of light hours in the morning that are otherwise wasted sleeping. In Tokyo it's light outside from 4am in Summer, if you can instead have an hour of that in the evening then that's an extra hour people don't need to turn on their lights.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  I was under the impression that people can decide for themselves the times when they want to go to bed and wake up. If I lived in Tokyo, I would likely choose to wake at an earlier clock time, but still at the same offset from whenever local noon may be. If someone built an alarm clock with a GPS receiver that used the equation of time to calculate apparent solar time, mean solar time, and civil time from GPS time, and if it allowed the user to set the alarm as an offset from local sunrise, noon, or sunset, would anyone besides myself buy it? I think if more timepieces were more informative about how much difference there is between civil time and mean solar time, people would be less tolerant of daylight savings time. But those timepieces would also have to handle all the time zones plus the multitude of stupid rules different civil jurisdictions use to calculate DST. Hopefully, the wrist-mount computers emerging onto the market will make it possible to create "DST howling outrage generator" applications.
  - imron 12y ago
    >I was under the impression that people can decide for themselves the times when they want to go to bed and wake up. That's correct, and most people choose times that are roughly in sync with the people around them. Waking up an hour earlier is less useful if the gym isn't open an hour earlier, or your favourite breakfast stall isn't open an hour earlier etc.
    - logfromblammo 12y ago
      If your life is so strictly scheduled that you can't adjust parts of it an hour or two in either direction, or swap morning activities with evening activities, your problems are bigger than daylight savings time. Some people work 2nd or 3rd shift, and a few of them even do it by choice. If you think moving things around by one hour is difficult, try shifting them eight hours. Those people still manage, though they often acquire sleep-related health problems and have to deal with more inconveniences in their daily life.

yxhuvud 12y ago

Is that a problem? That is the case here for more than a quarter of the year.