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Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia where a) our DST does not quite align with the switchover in the US, but only by

Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia where a) our DST does not quite align with the switchover in the US, but only by a couple of days, and b) out of the four states on the east coast time zone, one of them does not use DST which makes things more confusing. On a side note, the title reminds me of a similarly interesting bug in OpenOffice.org: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+bug/248619 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file/+bug/248619

andyjdavis 12y ago
>our DST does not quite align with the switchover in the US, but only by a couple of days, and b) out of the four states on the east coast time zone, one of them does not use DST which makes things more confusing. Quite a few years ago I was working in WA on a system that frequently aggregated data from servers located in different states when they decided to try daylight savings. From memory it was decided by the WA state government that the state would adopt daylight savings on a trial basis, try it for a year or two, then consider if we wanted to keep it. For programmers it was pretty much the worst possible solution. Have it or don't have it, don't force us to make sure everything supported having daylight savings in WA and also require the ability to possibly turn it off again in the relatively near future. Getting annoyed just thinking about it...
- slyall 12y ago
  I remember when they changed the daylight savings start/finish times for the 2000 Sydney Olympics. Had to go though a bunch of machines and manually patch in the new tzfile (this was before config management). Also remember at one point NZ was having a potential power shortage caused by a drought[1]. Some senior government officials were suggesting bringing forward the start of daylight saving by a month with around 2 weeks notice.[2] [1] - NZ gets most of it's power from Hydro [2] - The jury is still out on if daylight savings saves power, especially since different places have low/high aircon usage.
  - brc 12y ago
    I once tried to work out, based on power usage levels, if DST saves power (it's original purpose in wartime) At best it's a wash. People all think that domestic lighting is a big power user, but in reality it's things like commercial shopping centres and office buildings that really suck down the juice. And typically those are run on a timer, so the pattern doesn't change (even if the timer is adjusted, the lights,ac and services are on for a fixed period of time). Any savings for people having their lights off for 60 minutes less is swamped by people switching their AC on when they get home an hour earlier. I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though.
    - tomjen3 12y ago
      It probably did save energy once, back when it was first introduced because I doubt most people used electricity for much more than a radio and lighting. Sure the rich likely did, but there aren't that many of them.
      - digi_owl 12y ago
        Well the idea is from before electric lighting was even a thing, so who really knows? I do wonder if the Russians have it right in their recent abolishment of the system.
    - toothbrush 12y ago
      > I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though. I was amused at this comment, since i always dread the week or so after transitioning. Invariably my biological clock is screwed up and i'm something of a zombie in the morning at work and the later evening at parties.
    - wtbob 12y ago
      > I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though. The people who die each week after DST changes don't have much of an improved quality of life. The clock should never change; if people want a different schedule then they should work 0700-1600 or 0600-1500 or whatever.
- batiudrami 12y ago
  As I recall, there was a Windows hotfix at the start and end of the trial, specifically to allow for this change. WA Govt was very keen on us voting for it, and assumed that with a trial we would get used to it and it would pass. As it turns out, that time it was rejected by the biggest margin so far.
imron 12y ago
> Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia Except for you know, when it's still light at 7.30pm. I like light evenings in the summer and am prepared to accept a little complexity as a tradeoff.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  People say this, but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? And didn't Australia do some last minute DST nonsense like a Latam country, versus planning far ahead?
  - yen223 12y ago
    I never liked the argument that DST gives you a consistent sunrise and sunset time, because it can't. DST can't extend the amount of daylight for obvious reasons. It's rather like redefining the metre so that everyone is 2 metres tall - you're adding a lot of complexity for not a lot of consistency.
    - imron 12y ago
      Who makes that argument? Daylight savings doesn't give you consistent sunrise/sunsets. For example, in Melbourne, Australia, in the winter it will be dark by around 5:30pm. In the summer it gets dark by around 8:30pm. I like having inconsistent sunrise and sunset times (e.g. extra daylight time in the evenings in the summer). Neither do I think daylight savings extends the amount of daylight. What it does is shift the typical working day so that by the end of it, there are still a few more hours of daylight left. That's what I like about.
      - broodbucket 12y ago
        That's all well and good, however I don't think it comes close to justifying the complexity.
        imron 12y ago
oliyoung 12y ago
also fades curtains

andyjdavis 12y ago

>our DST does not quite align with the switchover in the US, but only by a couple of days, and b) out of the four states on the east coast time zone, one of them does not use DST which makes things more confusing. Quite a few years ago I was working in WA on a system that frequently aggregated data from servers located in different states when they decided to try daylight savings. From memory it was decided by the WA state government that the state would adopt daylight savings on a trial basis, try it for a year or two, then consider if we wanted to keep it. For programmers it was pretty much the worst possible solution. Have it or don't have it, don't force us to make sure everything supported having daylight savings in WA and also require the ability to possibly turn it off again in the relatively near future. Getting annoyed just thinking about it...

slyall 12y ago
I remember when they changed the daylight savings start/finish times for the 2000 Sydney Olympics. Had to go though a bunch of machines and manually patch in the new tzfile (this was before config management). Also remember at one point NZ was having a potential power shortage caused by a drought[1]. Some senior government officials were suggesting bringing forward the start of daylight saving by a month with around 2 weeks notice.[2] [1] - NZ gets most of it's power from Hydro [2] - The jury is still out on if daylight savings saves power, especially since different places have low/high aircon usage.
- brc 12y ago
  I once tried to work out, based on power usage levels, if DST saves power (it's original purpose in wartime) At best it's a wash. People all think that domestic lighting is a big power user, but in reality it's things like commercial shopping centres and office buildings that really suck down the juice. And typically those are run on a timer, so the pattern doesn't change (even if the timer is adjusted, the lights,ac and services are on for a fixed period of time). Any savings for people having their lights off for 60 minutes less is swamped by people switching their AC on when they get home an hour earlier. I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    It probably did save energy once, back when it was first introduced because I doubt most people used electricity for much more than a radio and lighting. Sure the rich likely did, but there aren't that many of them.
    - digi_owl 12y ago
      Well the idea is from before electric lighting was even a thing, so who really knows? I do wonder if the Russians have it right in their recent abolishment of the system.
  - toothbrush 12y ago
    > I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though. I was amused at this comment, since i always dread the week or so after transitioning. Invariably my biological clock is screwed up and i'm something of a zombie in the morning at work and the later evening at parties.
  - wtbob 12y ago
    > I still support DST as a quality of life thing, though. The people who die each week after DST changes don't have much of an improved quality of life. The clock should never change; if people want a different schedule then they should work 0700-1600 or 0600-1500 or whatever.
batiudrami 12y ago
As I recall, there was a Windows hotfix at the start and end of the trial, specifically to allow for this change. WA Govt was very keen on us voting for it, and assumed that with a trial we would get used to it and it would pass. As it turns out, that time it was rejected by the biggest margin so far.

imron 12y ago

> Daylight Savings is nothing but a frustration nowadays, especially in Australia Except for you know, when it's still light at 7.30pm. I like light evenings in the summer and am prepared to accept a little complexity as a tradeoff.

MichaelGG 12y ago
People say this, but what's stopping you from going out at 6:30 instead? And didn't Australia do some last minute DST nonsense like a Latam country, versus planning far ahead?
- yen223 12y ago
  I never liked the argument that DST gives you a consistent sunrise and sunset time, because it can't. DST can't extend the amount of daylight for obvious reasons. It's rather like redefining the metre so that everyone is 2 metres tall - you're adding a lot of complexity for not a lot of consistency.
  - imron 12y ago
    Who makes that argument? Daylight savings doesn't give you consistent sunrise/sunsets. For example, in Melbourne, Australia, in the winter it will be dark by around 5:30pm. In the summer it gets dark by around 8:30pm. I like having inconsistent sunrise and sunset times (e.g. extra daylight time in the evenings in the summer). Neither do I think daylight savings extends the amount of daylight. What it does is shift the typical working day so that by the end of it, there are still a few more hours of daylight left. That's what I like about.
    - broodbucket 12y ago
      That's all well and good, however I don't think it comes close to justifying the complexity.
      - imron 12y ago

oliyoung 12y ago

also fades curtains