6 ms·

Is anybody else annoyed by these kinds of articles confusing Fermi problems (how many piano tuners in Seattle or golfballs in school bus) with Brainteasers (why

Is anybody else annoyed by these kinds of articles confusing Fermi problems (how many piano tuners in Seattle or golfballs in school bus) with Brainteasers (why manhole covers are round, or crazy questions about perfectly rational guys on an island wearing hats)? It seems to me that those types of questions are very different in terms of what they're testing for. Fermi problems in particular show how you might go about approaching a problem, and there may be many different correct answers or ways to approach it, and the goal isn't to get to the "right answer". Brainteasers, in contrast, either test whether you can recall or figure out an extremely specific problem, or whether you're good at solving certain types of logic puzzles under pressure. It may well be that both of these types of questions don't give useful information about a candidate, but they are vastly different overall.

raverbashing 12y ago
Yes, they are different What I think end up happening with those Fermi Problems (or other problems) is that the interviewer knows one specific answer and then ends up rejecting alternative answers
- tptacek 12y ago
  That is true of a surprising number of concrete-seeming programming questions, too, which is another reason you should standardize your questions.
  - QuercusMax 12y ago
    I know Google has interviewers copy down character-for-character what is written on the whiteboard for their whiteboard programming questions. Presumably this is so that their hiring committees can dispassionately review what the candidate produced, instead of relying on the interviewer to report success or failure.
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    Yes, but for something slightly more complex than a "fixed answer" problem I would expect some flexibility in the answer. (Especially because of limited time in an interview and the candidate is under pressure)
- sgift 12y ago
  Which is the reason they could be completely different from brainteasers, but are the same in the form used in interviews. People are very, very bad at evaluating on the spot if some "solution with thought-process" which differs from their own is actually completely valid, usually it is: "Nope, that's not how you do it. What did he think?!" You'd have to capture the answer and then study it later, possibly multiple times to overcome any: "Hm, this doesn't sound right, why didn't he think of x, y and z"-feeling and understand that x, y and z are just your bias, not some kind of "correct" part of every answer. I've never seen that happening.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
What annoys me is articles perpetuating the myth that such questions are still asked at technical interviews. Google banned them from its process ten years ago and most large companies did as well.
- sixdimensional 12y ago
  Definitely not a myth at all. Disclaimer: recent Google interviewee.
  - litewulf 12y ago
    Was this for a software engineering role? I've never been asked this, and I'm pretty sure during interview training you are explicitly told not to ask those sorts of questions.
    - sixdimensional 12y ago
      No, not software engineering - product management. That said, the position in question was still of a fairly technical nature as far as I understood it.
      - foobarqux 12y ago
        Can you describe the differences in product management positions at Google? Which ones are technical and non-technical?
        sixdimensional 12y ago
        No, unfortunately, I can't give you a useful answer here. It seems that, in the first rounds of interviewing, you might not be interviewing for a specific position initially, rather, a function/role (for example, product management or software engineering). In my case, I was clear that I was unable to relocate, which left only a specific position available as a possibility which was nearby. The reason I thought that specific position had technical responsibilities was by the description of said responsibilities in the job description as posted. Also, I was told that I was contacted by Google in large part because of my technical background, but during the interview, that background was not discussed or explored. Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

raverbashing 12y ago

Yes, they are different What I think end up happening with those Fermi Problems (or other problems) is that the interviewer knows one specific answer and then ends up rejecting alternative answers

tptacek 12y ago
That is true of a surprising number of concrete-seeming programming questions, too, which is another reason you should standardize your questions.
- QuercusMax 12y ago
  I know Google has interviewers copy down character-for-character what is written on the whiteboard for their whiteboard programming questions. Presumably this is so that their hiring committees can dispassionately review what the candidate produced, instead of relying on the interviewer to report success or failure.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Yes, but for something slightly more complex than a "fixed answer" problem I would expect some flexibility in the answer. (Especially because of limited time in an interview and the candidate is under pressure)
sgift 12y ago
Which is the reason they could be completely different from brainteasers, but are the same in the form used in interviews. People are very, very bad at evaluating on the spot if some "solution with thought-process" which differs from their own is actually completely valid, usually it is: "Nope, that's not how you do it. What did he think?!" You'd have to capture the answer and then study it later, possibly multiple times to overcome any: "Hm, this doesn't sound right, why didn't he think of x, y and z"-feeling and understand that x, y and z are just your bias, not some kind of "correct" part of every answer. I've never seen that happening.

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

What annoys me is articles perpetuating the myth that such questions are still asked at technical interviews. Google banned them from its process ten years ago and most large companies did as well.

sixdimensional 12y ago
Definitely not a myth at all. Disclaimer: recent Google interviewee.
- litewulf 12y ago
  Was this for a software engineering role? I've never been asked this, and I'm pretty sure during interview training you are explicitly told not to ask those sorts of questions.
  - sixdimensional 12y ago
    No, not software engineering - product management. That said, the position in question was still of a fairly technical nature as far as I understood it.
    - foobarqux 12y ago
      Can you describe the differences in product management positions at Google? Which ones are technical and non-technical?
      - sixdimensional 12y ago
        No, unfortunately, I can't give you a useful answer here. It seems that, in the first rounds of interviewing, you might not be interviewing for a specific position initially, rather, a function/role (for example, product management or software engineering). In my case, I was clear that I was unable to relocate, which left only a specific position available as a possibility which was nearby. The reason I thought that specific position had technical responsibilities was by the description of said responsibilities in the job description as posted. Also, I was told that I was contacted by Google in large part because of my technical background, but during the interview, that background was not discussed or explored. Sorry I couldn't be of more help!