5 ms·

Have mechanical keyboards had any innovation since the release of Model M? I mean, if the technology had any potential, you would see it evolve over time, tryin

by cabirum 12y ago

Have mechanical keyboards had any innovation since the release of Model M? I mean, if the technology had any potential, you would see it evolve over time, trying to get rid of unwanted properties (reduce weight, dimensions, loudness) while refining the good ones (keypress feel, durability, rollover). The lack of innovation is a sign of manufacturers catering to the nostalgic&hipster audience who still can't get out of 1980s. Basically, every article about superior mechanical keyboards reads exactly like audiophile-targeted articles telling how vinyl sound is superior to CDs/digital.

zamalek 12y ago
There has been innovations. Model M used a buckling spring[1] (which some people claim is unmatched) while Cherry MX uses a mechanism[2] (which some people claim is superior). There are a wide variety of Cherry MX switches and, yes, one that has a good tactile response but is also relatively quiet: Cherry MX Clear. [1]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Origbuck1.jpg http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Origbuck1.jpg [2]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Mx_clear_illustration.gif http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Mx_clear_illustration.gif
- cabirum 12y ago
  I'm not saying there were no innovation at all. But 30 years have passed since Model M release, you would expect keybs to change much, much more. Also, Cherry is the only major manufacturer of mechanical switches in mass produced keyboards.
  - chao- 12y ago
    Razer now produces their own switches. Admittedly they are incredibly Cherry-like, so that doesn't address your point about "innovation", which I assume here to mean "variation" or simply product diversity? For that, take a look at the switches produced by Topre Corp: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch
  - noamyoungerm 12y ago
    30 years may have passed since the Model M was released, but typewriters have been in use for much longer. The fundamental structure of a keyboard is not new at all, and as such the mechanisms underlying the highest-quality keyboards can't have changed too much either.
Qwertious 12y ago
Or maybe it's a result of people not thinking about keyboards much? Technology evolution is driven by profit from a solid userbase, and right now the userbase is fairly small, so there isn't much extra money for R&D.
- lorenzfx 12y ago
  While there may not be much evolution in switches, there is a lot of recent evolutions in keyBOARDs. Some examples: two new versions of the ergodox announced more or less simultaneously: ErgoDox Infinity https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox?mode=guest_open https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox?mode=guest_ope... ErgoDox EZ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-... Massdrop's Infinity https://www.massdrop.com/article/the-story-behind-infinity-a-community-designed-keyboard https://www.massdrop.com/article/the-story-behind-infinity-a... Keyboardio http://www.keyboard.io/ http://www.keyboard.io/
- cabirum 12y ago
  My whole point is that mechanical keyboards owe their existence to people thinking too much about keyboards :)
chao- 12y ago
>you would see it evolve over time, trying to get rid of unwanted properties (reduce weight, dimensions, loudness) That has happened, though, for those who want it. Emphasis on "has happened" in the past tense. I have used a Filco Majestouch space-saver [0] with MX Brown switches for seven years now, and I'll address each of these: - Reducing dimensions has been achieved, but beyond completely removing the remaining eighth-inch bezel, it would have diminishing returns. I have relatively small hands, but even I remember typing on an 2008-era netbook with an 80%-sized keyboard as being an utter nightmare. If you mean vertical dimensions, I will have to simply disagree. I prefer the distance in key travel and not bottoming out my keys. - I can't stand the loudness factor of many mechanical keyboards, and so I went with a board that doesn't produce or artificial add noise into its mechanism (Cherry MX Brown switches). - I don't see weight being a factor at all, as it sits on my desk. Too light and it would probably move around, which is bad. Even with rubber feet, they eventually get a little dusty and allow the board to shift when bumped. Being featherweight would only lower that threshold. [0]: For reference w.r.t. small bezel and size: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32216845105_1/Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Filco-87-Majestouch-2-87-Layout-Top-ingrave-Cherry-MX-Red-Switches-Anti.jpg http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32216845105_1/Mechanical-...
technomancy 12y ago
> Have mechanical keyboards had any innovation since the release of Model M? Yes, dramatically. It used to be the only ergonomic keyboard with mechanical switches was the US$300 beast of the Kinesis Advantage, but the Truly Ergonomic (https://www.trulyergonomic.com https://www.trulyergonomic.com) and the Ergodox (http://ergodox.org http://ergodox.org) has kicked off a wave of next-gen ergonomic keyboards featuring column-staggering, better use of thumb keys, a wide key switch selection, and reprogrammable microcontrollers. Disclaimer: I sell DIY ergonomic mechanical keyboard kits, (http://atreus.technomancy.us http://atreus.technomancy.us) so I'm probably biased but whatever. There also has been improvement in the switches themselves: Matias (http://matias.ca http://matias.ca) Quiet Click switches have the same sound damping properties as the quiet Cherry switches but offer a higher actuation point and smoother action. They have also recently developed a prototype of a linear switch.
- cabirum 12y ago
  Hmm, cool, Matias actually looks like a modern keyboard and with their own switches even. Okay, I guess it refutes some of my statements :)
  - technomancy 12y ago
    I have to agree with you on one point though: the continued prevalence of the conventional 104-key row-staggered layout is baffling. Up to the mid-80s keyboards used to exhibit gradual evolution in the layout, (function keys on the left, arrow keys in a + shape, etc) then one design happened to take hold and everything else basically died out. We can (and often do) come up with much better designs, but nothing seems to stick.

by cabirum 12y ago

zamalek 12y ago

There has been innovations. Model M used a buckling spring[1] (which some people claim is unmatched) while Cherry MX uses a mechanism[2] (which some people claim is superior). There are a wide variety of Cherry MX switches and, yes, one that has a good tactile response but is also relatively quiet: Cherry MX Clear. [1]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Origbuck1.jpg http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Origbuck1.jpg [2]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Mx_clear_illustration.gif http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Mx_clear_illustration.gif

cabirum 12y ago
I'm not saying there were no innovation at all. But 30 years have passed since Model M release, you would expect keybs to change much, much more. Also, Cherry is the only major manufacturer of mechanical switches in mass produced keyboards.
- chao- 12y ago
  Razer now produces their own switches. Admittedly they are incredibly Cherry-like, so that doesn't address your point about "innovation", which I assume here to mean "variation" or simply product diversity? For that, take a look at the switches produced by Topre Corp: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch
- noamyoungerm 12y ago
  30 years may have passed since the Model M was released, but typewriters have been in use for much longer. The fundamental structure of a keyboard is not new at all, and as such the mechanisms underlying the highest-quality keyboards can't have changed too much either.

Qwertious 12y ago

Or maybe it's a result of people not thinking about keyboards much? Technology evolution is driven by profit from a solid userbase, and right now the userbase is fairly small, so there isn't much extra money for R&D.

lorenzfx 12y ago
While there may not be much evolution in switches, there is a lot of recent evolutions in keyBOARDs. Some examples: two new versions of the ergodox announced more or less simultaneously: ErgoDox Infinity https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox?mode=guest_open https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox?mode=guest_ope... ErgoDox EZ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-mechanical-keyboard https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-... Massdrop's Infinity https://www.massdrop.com/article/the-story-behind-infinity-a-community-designed-keyboard https://www.massdrop.com/article/the-story-behind-infinity-a... Keyboardio http://www.keyboard.io/ http://www.keyboard.io/
cabirum 12y ago
My whole point is that mechanical keyboards owe their existence to people thinking too much about keyboards :)

chao- 12y ago

>you would see it evolve over time, trying to get rid of unwanted properties (reduce weight, dimensions, loudness) That has happened, though, for those who want it. Emphasis on "has happened" in the past tense. I have used a Filco Majestouch space-saver [0] with MX Brown switches for seven years now, and I'll address each of these: - Reducing dimensions has been achieved, but beyond completely removing the remaining eighth-inch bezel, it would have diminishing returns. I have relatively small hands, but even I remember typing on an 2008-era netbook with an 80%-sized keyboard as being an utter nightmare. If you mean vertical dimensions, I will have to simply disagree. I prefer the distance in key travel and not bottoming out my keys. - I can't stand the loudness factor of many mechanical keyboards, and so I went with a board that doesn't produce or artificial add noise into its mechanism (Cherry MX Brown switches). - I don't see weight being a factor at all, as it sits on my desk. Too light and it would probably move around, which is bad. Even with rubber feet, they eventually get a little dusty and allow the board to shift when bumped. Being featherweight would only lower that threshold. [0]: For reference w.r.t. small bezel and size: http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32216845105_1/Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Filco-87-Majestouch-2-87-Layout-Top-ingrave-Cherry-MX-Red-Switches-Anti.jpg http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/32216845105_1/Mechanical-...

technomancy 12y ago

> Have mechanical keyboards had any innovation since the release of Model M? Yes, dramatically. It used to be the only ergonomic keyboard with mechanical switches was the US$300 beast of the Kinesis Advantage, but the Truly Ergonomic (https://www.trulyergonomic.com https://www.trulyergonomic.com) and the Ergodox (http://ergodox.org http://ergodox.org) has kicked off a wave of next-gen ergonomic keyboards featuring column-staggering, better use of thumb keys, a wide key switch selection, and reprogrammable microcontrollers. Disclaimer: I sell DIY ergonomic mechanical keyboard kits, (http://atreus.technomancy.us http://atreus.technomancy.us) so I'm probably biased but whatever. There also has been improvement in the switches themselves: Matias (http://matias.ca http://matias.ca) Quiet Click switches have the same sound damping properties as the quiet Cherry switches but offer a higher actuation point and smoother action. They have also recently developed a prototype of a linear switch.

cabirum 12y ago
Hmm, cool, Matias actually looks like a modern keyboard and with their own switches even. Okay, I guess it refutes some of my statements :)
- technomancy 12y ago
  I have to agree with you on one point though: the continued prevalence of the conventional 104-key row-staggered layout is baffling. Up to the mid-80s keyboards used to exhibit gradual evolution in the layout, (function keys on the left, arrow keys in a + shape, etc) then one design happened to take hold and everything else basically died out. We can (and often do) come up with much better designs, but nothing seems to stick.